Sabbath Lies: Correcting An SDA Pastor On The Sabbath | Part 2

Hey there thank you for being here especially if this is your first time with us Adventist or otherwise tonight we are circling back around to the camp of an SDA Pastor by the name of Jeff dowel the pastor of Hastings SDA Church who was seeking to refute a two-part presentation I gave titled in defense of the first day Sabbath in part one of our response to him we saw how Mr Dow’s criticisms were entirely nullified based on the simple fact that he entirely misrepresented and misunderstood what was said this is a fact I’m not going to rehash everything from part one so if

You missed that you can go back and check that out the link is in the description box down below however I do think it’s valuable to refresh you on Jeff’s Central objection in part one as well as in the presentation that Jeff was critiquing I showed this chart wherein I was giving a Redemptive historical analysis of the doctrine of the Sabbath I began by explaining how the Sabbath is a doctrine that to truly understand one must look at the entirety of scripture from Genesis to Revelation which is why my presentation began in Genesis where I pointed out how Adam and

Eve were not present on day one of creation this was important because in Jewish tradition it was customary to count a day from the evening until after the sunset the following day one such proof of this can be found in an article in the conservative Judaism Journal where we read quote in the Jewish tradition it is customary to count the day from the onset of night until after the sunset of the following day this method of counting was based upon the language of the Bible in the creation story where it says says several times and it was evening and it was morning

The first 2 3rd Etc day close quote and this is part of what my chart was seeking to visualize based on evening to evening Adam and Eve’s first day would have been the seventh day of the week the sunset of the seventh day closing out the first day of their existence which would mean that Man’s first day was God’s Sabbath day the seventh day the day that he ceased from the work of creation now like I said I’ve explained this chart more fully elsewhere but I made it very clear in both part one as well as the presentation that Jeff decided to misrepresent what exactly the

Chart was seeking to convey but instead of representing it accurately Mr Dow tried claiming that my position and claim was that man’s existence brought about a new week that was different from God’s week such that the seventh day was Saturday for God but Sunday for Adam and Eve therefore I’m injecting a first day Sunday Sabbath his words into the Genesis account as I showed in part one this is not only silly but it’s not even close to what I claimed but one last thing before we get back into it I want to remind everyone that the focus here is not necessarily to convince you of

The Christian Sabbath position if I were seeking to do that I would go about things in a different manner in this series we are focusing on examining Mr Dow’s criticisms along the way there will probably be many things that you disagree with but my hope is that it will help clarify the difference between what Adventists are claiming and what historic Christian sabari believe leaving you better informed even if you leave disagreeing with that in mind let’s pick back up where we left off in part one so how then according to the weekly cycle the seven days in their order are

Determined from a first day Sunday Sabbath when each day is determined by the seventh day Sabbath not not the first day of the week I’m going to talk about Romans 14 no one day in seven determine the weekly CLE of each day in its order I just pick whatever day you want that doesn’t determine the weekly cycle only the true seventh day from creation determines the weekly cycle in each day of the week from creation even till now nowhere in the Bible can you find where the week is governed by the first day of the week as called by the critics Sunday

Sabbath based on these key words this Theory concludes that Sunday is the New Order of sabbaths according to a New Creation we’re going to be talking about that in this video some tonight and in the remaining videos this new creation is something that Miles says Adventists have no clue about listen to what Dell ratler says first there are no planned first day of the week meetings as if Christ had told his disciples before his death to meet on the first day of the week rather the disciples were taken by surprise now don’t you think Jesus would have hinted to his disciples now after I

Die we’re going to go back to the original first day Sunday Sabbath in creation that’s going to be the Sabbath that Miles says Jesus restored and yet D ratf admits well Jesus never said anything about any of that before his crucifixion so according to Dale ratov Jesus never Jesus never said anything to his disciples before his death about this new creation Sabbath by the way Dale rat even changed what he says in his different books the regular practice of Christian worship on Sunday came many years after the death of Christ not at the resurrection

He says the regular practice came many years after the death of Jesus and then in his other book he says the regular practice of Christian worship on Sunday came as a voluntary celebration of the resurrection of Christ tackle that one miles look at that carefully Miles because he says it’s a voluntary celebration so was that first Sunday Sabbath in Genesis a volun AR celebration or was that something that God commanded or was that something that just happened yeah I don’t have to tackle anything Dale rats said Jeff because Dale rats wasn’t a Christian sabari he

Doesn’t speak for me I don’t know why you were bringing up all these other people in this presentation this is one of those silly instances where an Adventist thinks that all former Adventists that disagree with adventism hold to identical positions in the part particulars and we don’t now I know that Adventists love to jump on this and this is probably why Jeff brought other people into the mix because then they say well if you don’t agree in all the particulars look how divided you guys are huhuhuh you’re only United in your hatred of adventism yeah good

Obfuscation good deflection away from from what’s in Focus we might arrive at the same conclusions but that doesn’t mean that we use the same Pathway to get there the fact that Jeff can’t see this only further Reveals His unfamiliarity with what he’s criticizing despite his insistence like we saw last time that my apologetic is worse than bad remember he said if this is the best apologetic against the SGA Church’s position I’d hate to see what bad is yeah okay buddy but he asked don’t you think Jesus would have hinted to his disciples that now after I die we’re going to go back to

The original first day Sunday Sabbath in creation Jeff your question is built upon your faulty misunderstanding of what I believe and what I said in my presentation you’re about to make a big deal in a little bit about me saying that Adventists read the word Saturday into the Genesis account yet I also say that Genesis doesn’t say Sunday either so why did you keep claiming throughout this presentation that I said Genesis presents a first day Sunday Sabbath I thought you knew the position you’re criticizing Jeff you said you’d known about it for decades I want to

Remind folks that in part one we heard Jeff point out that I cited John’s Parker’s book the Sabbath transfer a book that Jeff claims to have owned for 30 years so he knows the position he’s anal I izing he told us however he didn’t bother to engage with Mr Parker’s exegetical work of Acts 13 and show why it’s flawed he simply said this to make it appear like he understands what he’s criticizing and he’s known about this for decades nevertheless what did I point out about this book in part one the title of the book itself the Sabbath transferred which clearly means Mr

Parker and Christian sabbatarians are not claiming there was a first day Sunday Sabbath in Genesis we believe the Sabbath was transferred to the first day by virtue of God in Christ entering his rest on the first day in the new creation he had accomplished the work of redemption he ceased that ended the first day when he walked out of the Tomb just like God in the original creation act entered his rest the seventh day after accomplishing that Mighty work and that’s precisely what I showed not only in part one but in the presentation that Jeff is critiquing speaking in the

Original creation act God did a mighty miraculous work he accomplished that work in full and then ceased from that work on the seventh day where he entered his rest hence why the Sabbath in the old creation was the seventh day it memorialized when God entered his rest but then that creation fell into sin at the hands of the first Adam however as Paul tells us in Romans 5:14 the first Adam was only a type of the one who was to come Jesus Christ the second Adam the second Adam came and redeemed the creation that the first Adam broke what we could call a recreation

Paralleling God in creation meaning the Genesis account God in Christ also did a mighty miraculous and creative work he accomplished that work in full and then ceased and entered his rest after its completion but unlike God in the original Creation in the Redemptive creation God in Christ entered his rest the first day the Resurrection Day which was when that work was finished this is what Hebrews 4 is saying as I have presented many many times and believe to be the most faithful interpretation of that chapter but I’ve also shown how the Suter for example prophetically foretold

Of a new day I’ve shown how Psalm 1824 this is the day that the Lord has made is applied by Peter in Acts 4 to the Resurrection Day the day the new creation was inaugurated and God entered his rest after that better creative work because yes the Redemptive creation was superior to the original creation of the physical matter like I showed in part one with a beautiful explanation from Thomas Watson in the original creation God gave us ourselves but in the new creation God gave us himself in the original creation we have life in Adam Romans 5:12 but by Redemption we have

New life in Christ Colossians 3:3 and 2 Corinthians 517 and there are numerous other parallels like this in scripture showing the Lesser to the greater and how the Redemptive creation was superior to the original creation of the physical matter so Jeff can bck and scoff all he wants and make it appear like Christian sabari have this bizarre and Confused understanding that’s just totally silly and wacky but it’s only because what Jeff is critiquing isn’t what Christian sabari believe it’s a caricature that he has made up that he is now trying to

Saddle us with what is called a straw man and if he actually knew his stuff he wouldn’t be acting like what I believe is that bizarre considering all of his Adventist Pioneers all of them stole their Sabbath arguments from my spiritual forefathers even the 7th Day Baptist who the ainst were influenced by they got their arguments from my Christian forbears Christian sabari which reminds me make sure you pay very close attention to this next section listen to what mil says the quotations is what miles says if you go to this video and watch it you’ll see

Exactly what I’m talking about by the way what’s really good about this is you see I don’t have to guess what they’re saying because when I watch their video I just put it on Clos caption and it shows you their very words that they’re saying close caption here’s what miles says Genesis lays out a pattern it does not say Saturday they read that into the text so he’s saying Seventh Day Adventist read into the text of Genesis that that that seventh day is Saturday that’s what he says so are Adventists wrong about the first week of creation ends on

Saturday are they wrong that God rested on the seventh day Saturday cuz he’s saying see we read Saturday into the text so we’ll just ask the question so for those who are going to write down the answers to these questions answer the questions I want to repeat it s adventus wrong about the first week of creation according to his Paradigm right there it is the top that’s not mine that’s miles and Dr casers that’s not mine that’s theirs God’s week first seven days so our adventus wrong about the first week of creation ends on Saturday are they wrong that God Ted on the seventh day

Saturday do tell us miles if the first day that God created the world is Sunday what day of the week is this first day in creation so I’m asking miles ketton which of these days in God’s week is Sunday there’s seven days not 8 9 10 first week of creation so I’m asking miles tell us miles if the first day that God created the world is Sunday what day of the week is this first day in creation what day is it where does Sunday fit into this pattern that God laid down in creation miles what do you read into this text about Sunday there’s only seven days in

The weekly cycle that occurs from creation so tell us miles is Sunday in this first week of creation God’s week is it in God’s week it’s only seven days which one of these seven days in God’s creation week is Sunday which one is it is this where Sunday belongs oh let that soak in let’s stop for a moment un let’s ask the question again is this where Sunday belongs Jeff this might have been one of the most embarrassing parts of your presentation clearly evidencing that you either didn’t actually listen or you’re a dishonest man there are no other

Options maybe you should have listened instead of relying on Clos captions or maybe your reading ability is as bad as your listening is so for starters you didn’t fully State what I said when I talked about this had you done so Jeff you’d realize why your supposed test questions are entirely irrelevant I’m going to answer them all with a single clip from the presentation that you’re responding to Doug that verse shows the pattern of the command six working days followed by a Sabbath it doesn’t say Saturday doesn’t say Sunday doesn’t say Sunday doesn’t say

Sunday he assumes his Roman Calendar influence and imports that into the text failing to see that what’s in view is a pattern ah ah so I said the text doesn’t say Saturday or Sunday Jeff or Sunday gee I wonder why you left that part off could it possibly be that it’s because your entire presentation was built on a straw man that I claimed Genesis teaches a first day Sunday Sabbath and if you would have correctly reiterated what I actually said that would have disproven your entire thesis showing that you’re a dishonest person if I said the text doesn’t say

Saturday or Sunday that once again proves I didn’t claim what you’ve claimed I did about a first day Sunday Sabbath in Genesis which is the fundamental assumption that all of your objections have been levied against it’s also why your alleged brainbuster questions are completely irrelevant my entire point of getting the day names out of the way was for a very specific purpose which I explained and will do so again my entire point in bringing up the week being a pattern as well as the names Sunday and Saturday not being present in the biblical text

Was because I was showing how the order of the creation week was not arbitrary it was God teaching us something and we can see this as Redemptive history begins to unfold which is why I showed Exodus 16 to talk about one such example of this day six was Israel’s preparation day Israel had to follow instructions regarding preparation day which is where they had to prepare themselves before they could enter into Holy Communion with god well was this arbitrary or not why why did God have them follow this order why day six it’s almost like oh I don’t know a pattern a pattern modeled

After God in the creation week and that was my point Jeff are we really supposed to believe preparation day for Israel was intrinsically tied to day six because day six is called Friday no this was modeled after God’s pattern in creation which is why getting bogged down in the names of the days distracts away from the point and I said what I did what I claimed is biblical Jeff there is a pattern in that first week Adam and Eve were prepared and fashioned on day six to then enter into Holy Communion with God on their first day of existence which circles us right back to

Why I also pointed out that Adam and Eve’s first day would have been the seventh day of the week in the importance of this detail it’s not arbitrary it’s not just a passby fly over detail you can learn something from this as I primarily focused on in part one Mr dowel has a really bad habit of read in into things that were said but not actually listening to why they were said I’ve lost count of how many times he’s done this so far but since we’re on the subject Jeff let’s look at something from your spiritual forefather since you wanted to try and act like you

Faithfully examined some of mine William Miller’s 1841 book views of the prophecies and prophetic chronology is a collection of Miller’s sermons as well as his interpretation of various verses of scripture where he utilized his 13 rules of Bible interpretation as I’ve shown before the SDA church signs off on these 13 rules and upholds them to this day well notice what Miller writes in a manuscript titled lecture on the great Sabbath where he’s interpreting Ezekiel 2012 a verse that sdas love to throw out constantly when it comes to the Sabbath bit of a long one here but pay very

Close attention quote this text is but a recapitulation of one in Exodus 31:13 and is repeated Again by The Prophet Ezekiel in verse 20 you will take notice that it is a sign between God and the children of Israel forever see Exodus 31:17 it is a sign between me and the children of Israel forever for in 6 days the Lord made Heaven and Earth and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed it is also a Perpetual Covenant see verse 16 now I want you should observe that this sabbath was the seventh day Sabbath God calls it my Sabbath and shows his reason why for in

Six days the Lord made Heaven and Earth and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed he engrafted it then into the de L and it was written upon both tables of testimony showing clearly that it would be binding under the gospel as well as under the law see Verse 18 and he gave unto Moses when he had made an end of communing with him upon Mount Si two tables of testimony tables of stone written with the Finger of God and it’s being contained in the ten commands written by the Finger of God on both tables of the testimony Graven on Stone to be a sign forever and a Perpetual

Covenant proves in my opinion beyond the shadow of a doubt that it is binding upon the Christian church as upon the Jewish and in the same manner and for the same reasons six days may work be done but in the seventh is the Sabbath of rest holy to the Lord this was the manner close quote so this was the opening of the lecture where he then transitions into making application of what he just said in a number of points notice the first one quote we shall inquire whether the seventh or the first day of the week ought to be kept as a Sabbath I say the the first for two

Reasons one is Christ’s resurrection and is often meeting with his disciples afterwards on that day this with the example of the Apostles is strong evidence that the proper creation Sabbath to man came on the first day of the week for Adam must have rested on the first day after his creation he being the last work of God and then God rested Adam must have rested on the first day of his life and thus you will see that to Adam it was the first day of the week for it would not be reasonable to suppose that Adam began to reckon time before he was created he certainly

Could not be able to work six days before the first Sabbath and thus with the second Adam the first day of the week he arose and lived and we find by the Bible and by history that the first day of the week was ever afterwards observed as a day of worship close quote uhoh Jeff William Miller was advocating for the first day Sabbath and he arrived at this conclusion based on applying his 13 rules of interpretation and it had nothing to do with tradition or the pope he only used his Bible the SDA Church tells us and what else did he recognize that Adam and

Eve’s first day was the seventh day of the week that Adam wouldn’t have been able to work for six days before his first Sabbath because he didn’t exist for six days before the first Sabbath in creation even an uneducated untrained 19th century American Farmer was able to see see what I’m saying Jeff so maybe relay that to all of your Fanboys who keep contacting us claiming that what I put forth is totally confusing and illogical no it’s only confusing and illogical if you listen to Mr dowel and his straw man representation of what I have claimed which is ultimately no

Different than what we just read from Mr Miller so now their own spiritual forefather who gave them their principles of interpreting the Bible no he was totally confused apparently the SDA Church tells us that Miller just used literal Common Sense along with the Bible and his 13 rules of interpretation remember in the February 8 1979 issue of the review and Herald they write quote Miller worked out practical rules for the study of the scripture called Miller’s rules of Bible interpretation these rules grew out of the basic belief that the Bible is the

Christian’s sole Authority for belief and practice and that the scriptures are self-authenticating and unified as well as their own best Expositor he believed that they should be understood in the most obious and practical sense unless there is a reason from the text itself to believe a symbol a parable a figure of speech or other literary form is being used these simple rules and an acceptance of biblical Authority form the foundation upon which the millerites built their Temple of biblical truth in the 1830s and 1840s even though some errors of interpretation crept into

Their construction of this Temple these rules also became the foundation upon which the emerging 7th Day Adventist Church built its temple of Bible truth the leaders of this developing movement corrected errors in the interpretation of the millerites and went on to construct a complete system of Bible teachings in fact there would be no basis for the existence of the remnant Church except for its Reliance upon scripture as the final authority of faith and practice close quote now Adventists can claim that this is one of the errors that crept into the millerite

Temple that God corrected later through Ellen White but this is just cope they primarily have his false date setting in mind here and stuff about eschatology but either way it doesn’t change the fact that when using his rules of interpretation he arrived at the same fundamental position as Christian sabari albeit he didn’t use the same path to get there Ellen White also endorsed this book by the way along with Miller’s rules she writes quote The Light Of Truth is going forth like a burning lamp and those who love the light will not walk in darkness they will study the

Scriptures that they may know of assurity that they are listening to the voice of the true Shepherd and not that of a stranger those who are engaged in proclaiming the third Angel’s message are searching the scriptures upon the same plan that father Miller adopted in the little book entitled views of the prophecies and prophetic chronology father Miller gives the following simple but intelligent and important rules for Bible study and interpretation close quote and she then goes on to list five of his 13 rules but she claimed that those who were engaged in proclaiming

The Adventist Church’s third Angel’s message the warning about Sunday keeping being the mark of the beast they need to be searching the scriptures upon the same plan that father Miller adopted in his book then to top it all off in spiritual gifts volume one Ellen White provides one of the reasons that this method of interpretation should be used by Adventists in chapter 22 which is titled William Miller she writes quote I saw that God sent his Angel to move upon the heart of a farmer who had not believed the Bible and led him to search the prophecies angels of God repeatedly

Visited that chosen one and guided his mind and opened his understanding to prophecies which had ever been dark to God’s people the commencement of the chain of Truth was given him and he was led on to search for link after link until he looked with Wonder and admiration upon the word of God close quote so she claimed to be shown in vision from God that an angel of God repeatedly visited William Miller guiding his mind and opening his understanding of scripture and more specifically how to interpret the Bible which is to say the 13 rules allegedly

Come from God himself so Jeff in an instance of sheer irony your propheus by way of vision tacitly endorsed my position by endorsing Miller’s rules of interpretation saying they came from God which he used and arrived at my position whoops now he obviously didn’t arrive at the same uh using the same method that uh Christian sabari used to arrive at this belief but it does show that even the SDA Church’s spiritual father using their own interpretive principles also arrived at this conclusion which shows us that even broken clocks are right twice a day but something else I want to

Mention about the creation week being a pattern and the importance that plays in understanding the Sabbath for those unaware Nicholas bound was an English Puritan Theologian he was known specifically for his extensive work on the doctrine of the Sabbath now I am citing Dr bound not because him saying something makes it true but for the same reason you go to a brain surgeon when you need specialized Medical Care and not a dentist notice what he says regarding the pattern that’s given in the creation week and it’s tied to the fourth Commandment Under The Heading the

Seventh day Comm commanded both under the law and the gospel he writes quote so he makes the seventh day to be genus in this commandment and to be perpetual and in it by virtue of the Commandment to comprehend these two species or kinds the Sabbath of the Jews and of the Gentiles of the law and of the Gospel so that both of them were comprehended in the Commandment even as a Genus comprehends both its species and so in saying that both of them were inculcated in the Commandment we do not imply contradictions as though if it were commanded the other not be but according

To the rules of logic we make the general to include both the particulars according to the rules of Reason close quote all right so I want to take this in bite-size chunks since this is a classic work and the wording might not be as easily understood for the modern reader especially if you’re not very familiar with the subject the Christian Sabbath position whether you agree with it or not states that the Sabbath is a Perpetual obligation both in the old creation as well as in the new both under the law and under the gospel and the argument as bound has been laying

Out up to this point in the book is not that the Commandment has changed in its substance he uses the term genus here which if you recall from biology class it refers to a parent family and within that genus you have varying species so simply put both the old creation form as well as the new creation form are both contained within the single commandment and there’s no contradiction in other words this is the same thing we saw William Miller say only in a more sophisticated manner bound then continues by explaining quote where unto very fitly may be adjoined as a further proof of it

Saying of St Augustine who writing against the manes he answered thus the doctrine that they taught was not diverse one from the other but the day and time which Christ appointed was diverse from that which Moses had taught so that we have not in the gospel a new commandment for the Sabbath diver from what was in the law but there is a diverse time appointed namely not the seventh day from creation but the day of Christ’s resurrection and the seventh from that both of them at several times being comprehended in the fourth Commandment and therefore Dr folk in his

Confutation with the Remis says thus of it in the scriptures the apostles knew the one day of seven was appointed to be observed forever during the world though the prescribed day according to the law was abrogated close quote and all of the heads of the sdas in the audience just exploded so why did bound bring up Augustine’s controversy with the manans as well as Folk controversy with the remist for those that do not know the manans were a heretical sect in the 3r century they were heretical for a number of reasons but one of the key ones was that they tried to set Moses against

Christ claiming that the two contradicted one another that if you uphold one you must denounce the other they claimed that there was one tradition of Moses when it came to the Sabbath and another that contradicted it regarding Christ so bound mentions Augustine here because his response to the manans was spoton Jesus and Moses were not in contradiction to one another not even on the Sabbath The Day and The Time of the Sabbath in the gospel is diverse from that of the Mosaic age but this doesn’t mean that Jesus contradicted Moses which is also why he

Cites William Folk’s dispute with the Remish new testament which was a Roman Catholic translation of the New Testament his point being Jesus entering his rest a new day in the New Creation in no way contradicts the law and the prophets the substance of the Commandment has not changed in the slightest like I talked about back in great detail in part one but then the final part here quote they knew it by scripture and what scripture is more plain for it than this commandment and the equity of it so that the eighth or ninth day may not now be observed in the time of the Gospel no

More than that it might be under the law both of them being alike included in the Commandment as we have heard that is as the Learned expound it in the genus of the law and in the substance of the law which made the apostles to know to know I say by the scriptures close quote and this is another example on top of Exodus 16 on why I said Genesis doesn’t say Saturday or Sunday Jeff because the creation week is a pattern you cannot like this all you want but it’s true and Christian sabbatarians have not changed that pattern We corporately Gather every

Seven days from the that Jesus entered his rest after accomplishing Redemption which is bound’s entire point he also reiterates the same thing we looked at from renowned church historian Philip schof back in part one corporate first day worship started with who the apostles which is yet another evidence that Jeff is misrepresenting Me by claiming that Christian sabbatarians believe and teach that there was a first day Sunday Sabbath in Genesis it also further evidences that Jeff didn’t actually listen to what my chart is representing and has given his viewers

His own spin on such all of his questions were predicated on a misrepresentation of why I said Saturday and Sunday are not mentioned in the text it had nothing to do with denying or rejecting a single creation week of seven days or six days of creation and one day rest however you want to word it and he didn’t disprove my biblical evidence that the creation week is a pattern so Jeff cannot like this he can huff and puff all he wants and keep lying about Christians but it won’t change the facts we arrive at our belief on this from scripture and by way of the

Apostles you don’t have to agree but when you guys claim that this is something involving the pope and the traditions of men you simply dismiss yourself from any serious dialogue and you evidence that all you care about is grandstanding your own tradition and rallying sdas together because you have yet to even hear this guy meaningfully engage with the Christian sabari position you know miles Cherry picks early church fathers these guys love to go to the early church fathers Justin Martyr tulan Ignatius they love to go to all these Church fathers Clement of

Alexandria you know Barnabas they love all these Church fathers miles loves to to quote these early church fathers for keeping Sunday so guess what we’re going to go to the church fathers okay we’re going to look at testimony of the early church fathers the father that these critics love to quote but you know what they only quote a little bit of what these guys say there’s a whole bunch of stuff they say that these guys don’t even quote but we’re going to quote a statement by Justin Martyr tonight now watch this here’s Justin Martyr they love to quote Justin

Martyr and here’s what Justin Martyr says Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly see they look at that wow they all come together on Sunday this is what the church father Justin Martyr says let’s read it carefully Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly because it is the first day on which God having wrought a change in the darkness in matter made the world and Jesus Christ Our Savior on the same day rose from the dead does miles agree with this church father he quotes him all the time where did Justin martyr get this

Idea about Sunday the first day of the week where did he get that idea did he get it from the first week of creation did he get it from the week in the old creation does this Sunday as the first day of the week in the old creation still stand today is the same Sunday the first day of the week in the new creation if it does not why not now remember miles wants to talk about this new creation and we’re going to get into that in the next few videos this new creation so if not why not now on the other hand if it does then nothing has changed at all in the first week of

Creation even till now so if it does if it doesn’t he’s going to have to answer these question questions now I’m going to tell you right from the start that the critics are not going to answer these questions especially they don’t even watch the whole video I’ve watched their whole videos from the beginning to the end when I watch Sam and I watch Miles I started and I watched the whole thing but guess what they’re not going to watch this whole video they’re going to tap in and tap out troll in and TR out but they’re not going to sit down write the answers out to the questions I’m

Asking see because if they were to ever convert me to what they believe they’re going to have to answer my questions they’re not the ones that’s going to run the whole show all the time no they’re going to have to answer my questions yeah this aged like milk Jeff because not only have I gone through the painful process of forcing myself to listen to your driil I’ve listened through multiple times to the detriment of my IQ this is just cope on Jeff’s part trying to overcompensate and convince himself that he’s achieving something of grandeur because as can be

Seen in part one and tonight I not only answered his supposed hard-hitting questions very easily but I also demonstrated why they’re not even valid because this entire presentation is built on Straw Men and misrepresentations that he has concocted up in his own mind and then pedal out to his audience so they can all glaze each other in their Echo chamber but it’s also funny that he says I’m not going to answer the questions when Jeff you haven’t engaged with a lick of the biblical Arguments for my position you erected all sorts of straw men like

Pointing to the church fathers and so see it’s just the church fathers dismissing Philip kaser because he has degrees and anything but engage with the biblical argumentation because you can’t you don’t even know the arguments as you yourself have demonstrated nevertheless yeah Jeff I sometimes cite the church fathers what’s your point and Advent toite Ellen White constantly the difference is I don’t make the in claims about the fathers that your organization does about Ellen White nor did the fathers make such insane claims about themselves like

Ellen White did for herself this criticism is just silly and desperate for starters I didn’t site a single Bill a single one of them as the basis for my position I presented biblical arguments Jeff as did Philip caser John’s Parker and the various other individuals that we looked at arguments that you haven’t even bothered to address and I think we know why secondly I didn’t cite Justin Martyr in my presentation in fact I hardly ever cite him at all so where are you getting this idea that I cite him all the time aside from in your imagination thirdly Jeff you entirely

Misrepresented why I cite the fathers when I do I cite the Fathers as historical sources not to say well look they believed it so therefore it’s true such as when his prophetess aant claimed that the pope changed the Sabbath which is totally ahistorical fiction Jeff himself is going to end up proving this shortly in his own attempt to utilize the church fathers to try and refute what he thinks my position is the arguments for my position come from scripture I’ve only ever cited the fathers in this area when demonstrating historical claims Jeff citing Justin

Martyr to say see he used the word Sunday to refer to the first day in Genesis as if that somehow refutes the point I made about Genesis not saying Saturday or Sunday that only proves that you didn’t listen to my presentation learn even if you disagree you listened for what you think could be gotcha moments and then fourthly Jeff you once again misrepresented the doctrine of the new creation I never claimed that the new creation changed the order of the weekly cycle this is whole cloth him making things up again but as for the claim that I cherry-picked the fathers

Jeff I’ll do you one better how’s about you come on to answering adventism and we’ll test this claim and discuss the Theology and doctrine of the church fathers and see who is and isn’t cherry-picking them okay it’s awfully ironic that he says this when we’re about to see him do this exact thing now let’s read a little deeper into what Justin Martyr actually says because they stopped right at the idea of Sunday they came together all right so let’s read it Sunday look at the Highlight in red Sunday it is the first day God made the world and Jesus on the same day rose

From the dead so what do we have the critics like miles and a host of others go to Justin Martyr to prove their Sunday no and I’m going to correct this lie every time he says it every single argument I have for the first day Sabbath is from scripture you haven’t disproven or dealt with a single one of them Jeff and I think we know why I only ever cite the fathers in this area to refute historical claims that the SDA pioneers and Pope Ellen made about history like the juvenile conspiracy that the pope changed the Sabbath according to Justin Martyr

Sunday’s the first day of the week and in the first day of the week of creation so in God’s first week of creation according to this church father Justin Martyr Sunday is the first day of the week there it is right there watch carefully Justin Martyr Church Father that Miles loves to quote refers to Sunday the first day the same day Jesus rose from the dead is the day and first day in which God made the world so you go to Genesis and find out what the first day was that God made the world right and Justin Martyr called that day Sunday right and Jeff the only reason

You think this is some sort of gotcha is because you entirely misrepresented me I never claimed that the new creation brings about a new weekly cycle I nevera claimed that there’s multiple varying weekly cycles that isn’t what my chart was conveying either which is evidenced in my own explanation of what the chart is depicting and when I said the words Saturday and Sunday aren’t used in Genesis I also explained what I meant by that but what’s funny Jeff is you just got done accusing me of cherry-picking and Justin Martyr calling the first day in Genesis Sunday is supposed to prove

It yet you cherry-picked just in yourself in doing so why the unjust weights and measures furthermore we have an article on our website compiling what some of the church fathers said in this area to Simply document the historical record over and against the ahistorical lies of the evst church under one of the quotes from Justin’s dialogue with Trio what do I write that Justin believed Sunday is the first of all days which further proves that Jeff is misrepresenting what I meant when I said the words Saturday and Sunday are not found in the Bible and

The fact that he thinks Justin’s position is out of sync with mine only proves Jeff’s own lack of familiarity with both Justin and the position he’s seeking to refute the Christian Sabbath however Jeff I do appreciate you reading this statement from Justin because it’s a piece of the historical evidence that your prophetess wasn’t shown by God that the pope changed the Sabbath again like I showed earlier Jeff’s Prophet is claimed to be shown by God that the pope changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday meaning corporate worship of the Christian church on the first day is

Allegedly a product of the papacy yet Justin lived centuries before any such a concept was even a viable reality even if we wanted to Grant the historical claims of the Roman Catholic Church to the papacy being traced back to Peter something I obviously do not agree with the time frame in which Justin Martyr lived was not a time when such an office would have had the level of notoriety and power to be able to do such a global change in both the East and the West well Ellen White claimed that the papacy was set up in 538 ad that’s supposed to be the start date for them to get their

Timeline from Daniel 7 25 about the pope Changing Times and laws and then after 1260 years from 538 they land on 1798 which is the year they claim the end times began and the papacy received its deadly wound so 538 as a start date for the papacy is baked into the SDA cake folks Justin Martyr lived in the 2 century and was writing around 150 ad the quote that Jeff read from Justin is his dialogue with Trio the Jew where Justin is explaining various aspects of the New Covenant Church in contradistinction to the old Covenant people of God and corporate first day

Worship was one of those things which means corporate Worship On the first day was taking place universally in both the East and the West in the church long before when Ellen White says the papacy came to be so Jeff all you proved with this quote is that your prophetess was a lousy historian that wasn’t shown by God that the pope quote unquote changed the Sabbath especially considering her historical presentation in this area is supposed to be coming from God himself she was shown these things this is why I cite the church fathers they are historical sources that prove your

Guys’s great controversy reimagining of history is exactly that a reimagining of reality that’s what he called it tulan the Sabbath Saturday now I didn’t make this up tulan was born about 160 and then went to 220 ad I didn’t make this up tertullian they love to quote tertullian they love to quote the church fathers right by the way he was a Latin father not Greek father and he refers to the Sabbath as what day Saturday now they’re basing this on creation on creation according to tulan Saturday is the seventh day of the week in the first week of creation so in

God’s first week of creation according to this church father tertullian Saturday is the seventh day of the week now what day do s 7 Day Adventist says the Sabbath Saturday correct again Jeff it’s sad that you think this is some sort of gotcha but once again it’s only because you built this entire presentation on rudimentary level understanding remember folks Jeff is telling people that Christian sabari believe their there was a first day Sunday Sabbath in creation which is false I’ve shown this I don’t even know how many times in both part one and

Tonight launching off of this error he then incorrectly quote mind my presentation where I said the biblical text doesn’t say Saturday or Sunday he misquoted me and left off that I said it doesn’t say Saturday or Sunday which disproves his straw man that I claimed there’s a first day Sunday Sabbath in Genesis Building on both of those errors he now claimed I cherry-picked the church fathers for my support despite me not citing the church fathers for the reason that he claimed Jeff is the one cherry-picking and he’s free to come on here like I said and we’ll have a

Discussion and see who is and isn’t cherry-picking the fathers now we hear him cite the church fathers referring to the first day is Sunday and the seventh day is Saturday and that’s supposed to disprove what I said about Sunday and Saturday not being found in the biblical text a statement that I clarified in the presentation that he’s critiquing as well as tonight Jeff you should be embarrassed and ashamed of yourself unfortunately based on what we’ve heard from you thus far you are a victim of Dunning Krueger which is a silent killer for those

Unaware the Dunning Krueger effect is a cognitive bias where a person thinks they know more than they do on a subject but they’re not bright enough to realize that they don’t know as much as they think they do but there’s a lot we can learn from this which is why we’re dedicating the time to responding Jeff can Bo and scoff but lots and lots of of Adventist have been redpilled on the Christian Sabbath due to the efforts of this platform they didn’t come to these silly conclusions that Jeff did in his attempt to try and make me look ridiculous and Confused

These folks were genuine Seekers who listened carefully analyzed the biblical case that was made and came to the conclusion that it’s biblical so Jeff keep up this silly charade to generate clicks off our platform’s name like a sycophant keep making these reputations that only glaze the Ardent died in the wool amongst your RS but the honest listener who heeds the Bible’s advice of hearing both sides of a matter before arriving at the conclusion is going to very easily see how badly you misrepresented my position to such a degree that one has to ask if

It was intentional but nevertheless we will pick back up where we left off in part three May Christ richly bless you all in the grace and peace won by him and his vicarious death on the cross for Sinners until next time God bless ho to apostate did he say that come on man