REACTION: 3 SDAs & A Christian Discuss Ellen White | Part 2

Well hey there I’m back today with another reaction video which is where I react to videos that were submitted by you the viewer today we’re going to pick back up where we left off in part one of a previous video from Matt Whitman of the 10-minute Bible Hour a few years ago he sat down with three sdas to learn about SDA theology like we saw in part one it has been well interesting if you missed that part the link to it is in the description box down below but before we get back into it I want to remind you all that answering adventism is a viewer supported Ministry that is

Equipping as many Christians as possible to reach as many 7th Day Adventists as possible with the true Christ in his gospel if you like what we’re doing here and you’d like to see more of that please consider partnering with us at answering adventism tocom donate it is through the support of our partners and YouTube members that we are able to fulfill our mission so thank you so much for your support now last time we left off right before they transitioned into talking about the Adventist Heavenly Trio what they call the Trinity and Ellen White I’m sure this will be

Interesting my understanding is that at least during part of that time you guys were not trinitarian but you definitely are now yeah when did that all part of that course of study it was a deep our Biblical Scholars just started pouring Through the Bible and started looking at everything and said you know what we really need to believe in the Trinity this is truly what the Bible the Bible says so in 1863 when this thing launches it launches as a trinitarian Christian denomination there was still formation that was going on until until later like 15 20 years probably and I

Could I I wish I could give you an exact date on that it took time some of the the well-known Adventists and some of some of people who I would say were Adventist Founders people um like Joseph Bates um they they they didn’t have what was what would be identified as a as a a true trinitarian concept um it was there was a sense that the founders of the church didn’t feel like that that was something they needed to confront dead on and obviously we we sit around this table right now and go well yeah trinitarian understanding of of scripture is like this is core to our

You to our understanding all right so a bit of a quick stop here but this was not true it can’t be core to your understanding when it’s still being ironed out in the 20th century trying to retrofit a new belief into the system which is what was done has only created more problems for the division in the movement it’s why you have anti- Heavenly Trio people that are getting more and more vocal within the movement especially online saying the modern movement has apostatized and it needs to return to the roots of the Pioneers now I cite Jerry Moon’s paper the Quest for

A Biblical Trinity a lot there’s a reason for that it is a scholarly work on the historical development of the SDA belief of God in their system moon is the chair of church history at the SDA seminary in Michigan qualified individual on the subject notice what he says influen their doctrinal development in this area quote the change from Adventist rejection of the traditional doctrine of the Trinity to acceptance of a Biblical trinitarian Doctrine was not a simple reversal when James White denounced Credo trinitarianism in 1846 Ellen White agreed with both his

Positive point that the father and the son are two distinct literal tangible persons and his negative point that the philosophical trinitarianism held by many did spiritualize away the personal reality of the father father and the son soon after this she added the conviction based on visions that both Christ and the father have bodily form rejecting the teaching of one trinitarian Creed that God is without body or Parts close quote so the Adventist teaching is not Orthodox trinitarianism and their belief was informed based on what visions and you’ll notice he

Contrasts what Christians believe over and against what the SDA Church teaches referring to their God concept as biblical because they believe their gods all have physical tangible form like humans do further evidencing that this is not the Christian God and did you notice that the guy with the glasses said that the Pioneers didn’t have what a true trinitarian concept this is exactly what I mean by having to scale the language barrier with this movement because this is the exact language that Jerry Moon uses in his paper to to say that it can hardly

Be denied that Ellen White held to a trinitarian concept first he writes quote in previous research I have traced the development of the avenus doctrine of God from opposition to the Trinity Doctrine as traditionally formulated to acceptance of the biblical concept of one God in three persons I’ve also traced the clear progression in Ellen White’s Visions from 1850 onward showing that her Visions gradually formed her concept of God until by 189 8 when she published Desire of Ages she held a trinitarian concept close quote Yeah there aren’t various concepts of the

Trinity he is positing a sort of social trinitarianism here a watering down of the teaching which is very specific making it generalized and then claiming well because we use the same words and fundamentally say three in one that means we are trinitarians which is exactly what he later goes on to also write quote since enen white clearly held the basic formula of one God in three persons it can hardly be denied that her view is essentially trinitarian however her view differs from traditional trinitarianism in the following important respects close quote

He then goes on to list a large number of reasons why their belief is not the same as what Christians believe that’s what beard glasses guy means by eventually they embraced a trinitarian concept and it was ultimately based on Visions like Moon plainly said yet the gray-haired glasses guy didn’t tell you that part it’s just that they studied the bible really really hard and that’s it the closest the SDA church can claim to being trinitarian is that their Heavenly Trio is a form of social trinitarianism like I said go look up what that is if you do not know but it

Must be said boldly and sincerely not to simply be inflammatory the Adventist Church is not a part of the body of Christ it is not Christian they have a different God Adventists hate when I say this but it’s the facts and people need to know this it is no different than how Mormons have a false god or false gods Jehovah’s Witnesses have a false god Hindus have false gods Islam has a false god and so on it doesn’t matter if you use all the right words what you’re actually fundamentally meaning and saying by those words is what matters and when you pop the hood

Of the car on this movement you find it’s a lemon it’s not good it is rotten hijacking the word Trinity redefining it but then insisting to the people you took it from that you mean the same thing is dishonest it’s not Christlike the administ church needs to own that they have their own unique belief and God concept that is ultimately informed by the great controversy Paradigm which Christians do not uphold and they need to be forthright about this and defend it not try and make inroads with Christians and insist you mean the same thing when the

Scholarship is literally on record outright contrasting the belief against what Christians believe and don’t get me wrong I want Adventists to become Christians that’s why I say this they need to be warned that this movement is cursed by God for having a false gospel that it’s not from him Satan is the architect and Jesus cares about them enough to send people to warn them of this deception Ellen White Ellen G white is that right who is she and where does she fit into the equation Ellen White during the time of the great disappointment was just a teenager someone who was caught

Up in the movement Ellen Harmon was her she wasn’t even Ellen White at the time yeah and uh she would later go on to be one of the major founders of our denomination uh we hold a position that she had the prophetic had a prophetic gift and so as such we we highly value Her counsel and her writings and her input on theological matters yeah Justin that was a clever way of stating what the official position is it has become almost a weekly Occurrence at this point but he here we are back at the SDA Church’s official statement of confidence in the writings of Ellen White wherein they

State that Ellen White’s writings are divinely inspired they correct inaccurate interpretations of scripture and they uplift the normative character of it meaning they allow one to see what scripture is really saying in other words she is the infallible interpreter and this statement is put out by the general conference in session who Ellen White claimed that when in session they are God’s highest Authority on Earth and when a decision comes down down from them private opinions and beliefs are to be yielded to them that would include these gentlemen including Justin coup

And to not do so would be considered a sin and Rebellion to God which would mean they’re not fitted for heaven in their system and hopefully they’ve come around to being more forthright and eager to share this belief more clearly and unashamedly not give the watered down plausibly deniable answer Ellen White wasn’t just a founding member of the SDA movement and she didn’t simply have the gift of Prophecy as most charismatic Christians would understand in including even Christians who are not charismatics when they hear gift of Prophecy they’re not going to think what

The SDA church is saying about Ellen White Ellen functioned as the movement’s stamp of approval from God that they were correct in their understandings of various doctrines notice what the LG white estate says in the preface of her book early writings they start by quoting her and they say quote during this whole time I could not understand the reasoning of the Brethren my mind was locked as it were and I could not comprehend the meaning of the scriptures we were studying this was one of the greatest Sorrows of my life I was in this condition of mind until all the

Principal points of our faith were made clear to our minds in harmony with the word of God the Brethren knew that when not in Vision I could not understand these matters and they accepted as light direct from Heaven the revelations given thus the doctrinal foundation of the Seventh Adventist Church was laid in the faithful study of the word of God and when the Pioneers could not make Headway white was given light that helped to explain their difficulty and opened the way for the study to continue the Visions also placed the stamp of God’s approval upon correct conclusions thus

The prophetic gift acted as a corrector of error and a confirmer of Truth close quote this is to say that Ellen by her own admission could not understand what was being said when the men would be studying the Bible at certain points the men would come to disagreements and Ellen would then supposedly be given light from Heaven AKA Visions which would give the stamp of approval from God along with countless details not found in the Bible that allegedly help enhance it thus she allegedly acted as a corrector of error and confirmer of Truth spoiler alert no Ellen didn’t

Function as a corrector of error she was the source of much confusion for the movement and is still a source of such I also want to note that Justin said they believe she had the prophetic gifting so remember this whenever you hear an Adventist try and tell you no no no Ellen White never claimed to be a Prophet this is an argument that’s often employed by some to try and get out of having to defend and uphold her as such but as Justin stated though very innocuously the organization does not take that position and she is codified as such in the fundamental beliefs yes

Individual Adventists might disagree with this many of them do but that’s the official position of the organization whether they like that or not but now that they’re getting into Ellen White I am curious to see where this goes did she predict more dates I mean what kind of prophecies would she she throwing out is it that’s that’s throwing out that that sounded so disrespectful that’s not how I meant that to sound but I mean what sort of prophecies was commun thank you I didn’t like the way it sounded actually I’m glad you mentioned it because uh it’s an opportunity for us to

Clear up misconception and one of the misconceptions that a lot of people have is that that Adventist predicted Seventh Day Adventist predicted the end of the world in 1844 and we’ve already said like the church didn’t even exist at that point in time we we we experienced the great disappointment that was a millerite prediction it was AER prediction and I’m not throwing him under the bus like he was a he was a good man who believed very sincerely and you know um I’m tempted to yeah I mean he predicted he he thought he could be the one who knew the day or the hour he

Threw out a prediction that just like everybody else who’s predicted it didn’t happen and he was and he by the way so so I as a Christian I I do have a bit of a problem with that practice there’s a lot of other misconceptions that that and this is an opportunity to clear one of them up is that Adventist have been date setters and there there actually weren’t other dates that’s the only one that’s been thrown out by millerites but I’m and even so you guys have said no dates none yeah since 1863 and and I’m not dodging that I’m just like saying Miller had actually said initially he

Had said like sometime around the fall of 1843 so there was when I say that there was another date it was there was not another date that I’m aware of after October 22 1844 and Adventists have not Ellen White Never predicted the the the second coming on a day or those kind of things yeah this is simply not true and I’ll explain how but first what did I say back in part one distancing themselves from the Forgotten years and I get it gentlemen I get it as an Adventist I didn’t want to be associated with that mess either but this is just smoke and mirrors it doesn’t matter if

The organization hadn’t formally Incorporated until 1863 this is because they were against such an idea originally not because they weren’t already organized that was allegedly part of the problem that the Pioneers had with Protestants was them being organized the way they were we’re never going to be a denomination these guys coming out of the Christian connection which was also against such a thing but the Pioneers also didn’t believe that they’d even be here for much longer and saw no need to incorporate they very clearly did not imagine their movement existing for 180

Years but acting like there were only failed predictions with Miller is another attempt to like obscure or rewrite history just like rebranding William Miller as an American reformer but notice glass’s beard guy was quick to say that the SDA church has set zero dates at least that he’s aware of here’s the problem with this claim did Alan white formally set a date that she came up with no but remember how they claim she functions for the movement stamp of approval from God light from Heaven AKA Visions well she gave the stamp of approval on a number of individuals in

Their movement that did set false dates and I can’t stand when some Adventist try and play word games on this she didn’t set a single date right she just claimed to hear from God that dates other people set were correct and they weren’t which is actually more problematic it was being circulated in their movement that Jesus would return in 1849 without getting into the weeds around all the false date setting leading up to 1851 Ellen had already received a number of other Visions at this point which allegedly let them know why exactly Jesus hadn’t returned yet in

1849 when they were sure Jesus would return that year she claimed quote I saw some looking too far off for the coming of the Lord time has continued on a few years longer than they expected therefore they think it may continue a few years more and in this way their minds are being led from present truth out after the world in these things I saw great danger for if the mind is filled with other things present truth is shut out and there’s no place in our foreheads for the Seal of the Living God the seal is the Sabbath I saw that the time for Jesus to be in the most holy

Place was nearly finished and that time can last but a very little longer and what leisure time we have should be spent in searching the Bible which is to judge us in the last days close quote so she saw people were looking too far off for what coming of the Lord this is it to say that in 1849 Ellen White allegedly received a vision confirming that people who thought time would continue on a few more years were wrong and the time for Jesus in the most holy place was nearly finished and he was about to return probation was going to close and the time of trouble was going

To allegedly begin that year we saw that in part one we saw how James White was teaching that it was present truth in 1849 for Adventists to believe that the time of trouble would come upon them that year because they were living just before the close of time and it’s also why in the same Year Ellen White was telling people that she was shown by God that the followers of the movement needed to sell their possessions and give the proceeds to the movement because they wouldn’t need them when the time of Trouble Comes because they might clog them down so just like James this

Was allegedly going to begin the time of trouble that year and she was shown by God that those who rejected this truth were in great Danger this little band of early 7th Day Adventists because that’s what they were despite not having a formal registered Corporation the little flock they were teaching with Divine Authority that rejecting a false vision and prophecy put one in great danger this is the same Prophet that gets codified in the SDA fundamental beliefs we’re supposed to believe that all that stuff doesn’t matter because it happened before a corporate entity was registered

In 1863 with the name sth Day Adventist Church nope not going to work she was a false prophet and she doesn’t have some pre1 1863 Immunity on that and there’s a lot more than just this one instance I’m trying to be short here I’ll give it to avenus though it’s a clever way of trying to distance themselves from the dumpster fire that was 1844 to 63 but it doesn’t get Ellen White Off The Hook as a false prophet so what kind of stuff did she predict or did she predict at all no she provided Enlightenment to you know what she would say is first and foremost is

That anything that she provided should not be held above the Bible everything she did was to help enhance our understanding and belief of the Bible because if you if you take her writings away you still have the Bible first and foremost that everything is based upon and outright lies or ignorance first he said that Ellen White Never predicted anything did you catch that Matt asked what sort of things was she predicting or was she predicting at all to which he said with they Stone Cold stare no yeah we just saw how that is false numerous times in part one and what I just showed

Previously she predicted the return of Christ would be in 1849 did she set that date formally no but she claimed to have a vision supporting such that’s worse that’s the bearing of God name God’s name falsely you’re not just setting a date you’re claiming God confirmed to me that that date is correct that’s worse she predicted that the end times people of God would be identified in part as those who wash each other’s feet and greet one another with the Holy kiss even though they would later go on to publish in numerous publishing arms of the organization why they don’t

Practice the holy kiss anymore she predicted that dairy products would begin to become more and more unsanitary and dangerous to consume so that guy’s either misinformed ignorant or lying but then we got the Lesser light to the greater light thing that Ellen White simply functioned to to point people to the Bible and without her writings the Bible still stands yeah this sounds nice except as I already showed she is the infallible interpreter that uplifts the normative character of scripture you supposedly can’t understand the Bible correctly without them to guide you

That’s what is meant by she points you to the Bible her writings can’t stand without the Bible but the Bible can’t be properly understood without her writings it is a package deal now I have shown this a lot of times but this is from the Seventh Adventist believe fundamental beliefs book which is the official exposition of their 28 fundamental beliefs in the chapter on Ellen White they cite SDA Pioneer Uriah Smith from an issue of the church’s paper the review and Herald and notice how he describes how Ellen White functions quote one illustration may help to set

This matter in a still clearer light suppose we are about to start upon a voyage the owner of the vessel gives us a book of directions telling us that it contains instructions sufficient for our whole journey and that if we will heed them we shall reach in safety our Port of destination setting sale we open our book to learn its contents we find that its author lays down general principles to govern us in our voyage and instructs us as far as practicable touching the various contingencies that may arise till the end budy also tells us that latter part of our journey will be

Especially Peril and that features of the Coast are Ever Changing by reason of quicksands and tempests but for this part of the journey says he I have provided you a pilot who will meet you and give you such directions as the surrounding circumstances and dangers may require and to him you must give heed with these directions we roach the perilous time specified and the pilot according to promise appears but some of the crew as he offers his Services rise up against him we have have the original book of directions say they and that is enough for us we stand upon that and

That alone we want nothing of you who now heed that original book of directions those who reject the pilot or those who receive him as that book instructs them judge ye close quote Yeah so not exactly how the gentleman describes her as simply an optional supplement or enhancement to the Bible if one so chooses the owner of the vessel is supposed to be God and he gives a book of instructions for the voyage of Life the Bible within that book they find that toward the end of their Voyage there will be perilous times aka the end times which is why God

Has provided a what a pilot which is Ellen White and to the pilot we are to give heed but some of the crew like these gentlemen that Matt is interviewing they rise up and say things like we have the Bible that’s enough for us the Bible and the Bible alone to which Smith rhetorically adds asks well who’s actually yielding to the book of instructions the ones that reject the pilot or those that learned by reading that book that God would send this pilot in the end and one needs to submit to them now this is obviously a badly circular argument one can’t understand

The Bible without the infallible interpreter but in the analogy they read the Bible to learn about the pilot that God would allegedly send in the end times well how could you know that you’re correct about that without the pilot to tell you you are correct cor see what I’m saying we heard not too long ago from the pastor of kenor SDA Church how he’s so glad that God gave the SDA Church Ellen White because without her we’d never be able to see the SDA teaching about the mark of the beast and the Sunday law in the Bible alone and I’m so glad we have the spirit

Of Prophecy amen I’m so glad the lord gave us a prophet not only he gave us his word but the prophet made it clear without the spirit of Prophecy I don’t know how I would have ever been able to ear these things from the word of God that’s an honest recognition that’s how she functions you’d never come to those two beliefs for example without Ellen White the point being this is modern current upto-date official SDA teaching it’s not new it was around when these gentlemen had this discussion it’s not hidden it’s not secret it isn’t obscure it is by the book Seventh Day

Adventist teaching some vindictive time traveler who was mad at your church was like ha I’ll ruin them and they invent time travel and they go back and convince Ellen White to become you know a juggler or something instead and not a prophetess you’re still you and you still believe what you believe everything we be believe is based on the Bible the core beliefs of our church come from the Bible I think she helped us provide some understanding for some of those beliefs but they’re not her beliefs those are biblical beliefs yeah again so these gentlemen

Are either ignorant which is entirely possible or they are lying and they’re not being forthright I could feel the tension in that room from my own place of dwelling another regular source that I site from constantly former General Conference president GI Butler speaking about this exact thing in what led up to the 1919 controversy he stated quote our position on the testimonies is like the Keystone to the arch take that out and there’s no logical stopping Place till all the special truths of the message are gone our enemies and the master they

Serve realize this but some of our people are so blind they do not nothing is Sher than this that the message and the Visions belong together and stand or fall together close quote so if Ellen Falls so does adventism because she is one of the pillars folks you have to notice the way Adventists will use language I’m not saying they’re always being knowingly de you know deceptive or deceivers Etc but the gentleman said all of their teachings are based on the Bible right but not solely derived from such they will tell you this pre-earth great controversy origin story is

Biblical but there’s nothing about it in the Bible but then when you ask for the support for for example when you talk about um show me that uh that that Lucifer rebelled becoming Satan because he was jealous of Jesus being exalted and attacked the Ten Commandments and a war started over the Ten Commandments and Lucifer claiming they’re not fair and can’t be kept and Angels don’t need to keep them show me that in the Bible you’re going to get pointed a single verse here and there like that there was war in heaven yeah so it’s like a movie how it’s based on a true story but oh they

Include a bunch of added details to spice it up for film but they’re not actually there in the actual history they don’t contradict the storyline they just enhance it and give these extra details folks you would never be able to come to the conclusions they do on numerous teachings without Ellen White’s alleged Divine insights we’ve listened to multiple SDA pastors and leaders that recognize this and just explicitly State as much so Matt you were badly lied to here and yes I say lie because some of the stuff is inexcusable you’re a pastor in the SDA

Church and you’re saying she never predicted anything for real adventism can stand without Ellen White yeah right I know many SD like to think this and tell people this but no folks there’s an objectively correct answer here this is another case of slipperiness Ellen White predicted all sorts of things by claiming to be shown stuff in Vision confirming things other people predicted a lot of Adventists will act like this gives her some sort of immunity because she wasn’t the one doing the original prediction but no this is sophistry and semantic games it

Is a prediction when someone else says it and then you claim to be given a vision confirming the prediction signing on to it but it’s actually worse than the person making the original prediction because Ellen attached God’s name to numerous ones violating the third commandment in the process she bore God’s name falsely every time that she claimed God showed her something that was then demonstrated to be false you were anticipating my next question so then what is the value provided I think there was a clarifying role I think there was a pastoral role you know

If you look at some of the things that Ellen White um wrote um some of them were visions and some of those were visions that I mean I really I really think that they helped to form like adventism within The Crucible of that experience those years of flux that the church was in before they were really formed as a church ah catch that he called The Forgotten years the church was formerly the church right so trying to cut that period off entirely distanced from it yeah slippery Matt like I told you this movement is slippery that’s how I would describe the the teachings we looked at

That back in part one um and gave people Faith to say hey God’s not abandoned us he’s like he’s leading us you know one of her Visions was a vision of people climbing on this narrow precipice and and and relying on uh faith and relying on scripture to to get through a difficult you know uh to to reach a difficult Summit you know so it’s those kinds of things like hey guys God’s not left us alone let’s you know Adventists even in the context of Ellen White’s presence and her voice in the church were were people of the book oh brother more watering down to the facts

What he referred to was the path Vision we’ve talked about and looked at this numerous times it wasn’t simply a message of encouragement climbing up a big precipice like it was some halftime speech of encouragement for the team it may have been encouragement for some people but it was veiled in a threat she claimed that anyone that rejected the fanaticism of the little flock and the refusal to accept that they were wrong in 1844 fell off the path down into the wicked world that God had rejected a bit of a long one here but we got to read the whole thing notice quote while

Praying at the family altar the Holy Ghost fell on me and I seem to be rising higher and higher far above the Dark World I turned to look for the people in the world but could not find them when a voice said to me look again and look a little higher at this I raised my eyes and saw a straight and narrow path cast up high above the world on this path the Advent people were traveling to the city which was at the farther end of the path they had a bright light set up behind them at the first end of the path which an angel told me was the Midnight Cry

This light Shone All Along The Path and gave light for their feet so might not stumble and if they kept their eyes fixed on Jesus who was just before them leading them to the city they were safe but soon some grew weary and they said the city was a great way off and they expected to have entered it before then Jesus would encourage them by raising his glorious right arm and from his arm came a glorious light which waved over the Advent band and they shouted Hallelujah others rashly denied the light behind them and said that it was not God that had led them out out so far

The light behind them went out leaving their feet in perfect darkness and they stumbled and got their eyes off the mark and lost sight of Jesus and fell off the path down in the dark and Wicked World below it was just as impossible for them to get on the path again and go to the city as all the Wicked World which God had rejected they fell all the way along the path one after another until we heard the voice of God like many Waters which gave us the day and hour of Jesus’s coming close quote Yeah so encouragement only in a tertiary sense to the main thrust which was a

Threatening which was that they were exclusively God’s people Christians that rejected millerism were already considered to be a part of the wicked world that God had rejected and those within the little flock that came to their senses and realized they were being misled they supposedly fell off the path and joined the wicked world that God had rejected and not just that but but it was impossible for those in the Wicked World to get onto the path only the little flock was on the path those millerites that refused to accept that they were wrong in 1844 which was

Perfectly consistent with the idea that the time of Salvation was up the door was shut and only those on the path were going to make it into the city of God yet this belief changed and the Wicked World actually wasn’t rejected by God and people could still be saved yeah not exactly clarifying light from heaven when another vision after this corrects the previous one both of which are supposed to be from God who isn’t the author of confusion to try and boil this down to Simply encouragement when it was a scare tactic false vision is not only dishonest but it’s not painting the

Whole picture and simply repeating over and over that Adventists are a people of the book doesn’t make it so it doesn’t mean you’re handling the book correctly adventism is a people of the book so long as it Accords with alen White’s commentary and visions and the leadership knows this folks it’s then disseminated down to the pews already being distilled and filtered through all of that where assertions are just made about the Bible and what it’s being and what the Bible is saying Adventists then trust their leaders and trust that they are correct

In their thinking that adventism is solely based on the Bible and this isn’t to say that people haven’t wielded her as a as an authority on equal level or greater than the Bible and you mean outside critics of adventism no no I’m saying that within within adventism there have absolutely been times and places where people have elevated her position wrongfully on par or above and and every time we would just be like no that’s that’s a misuse and I think one of my favorite and most endearing things about Ellen White and her role in the church is that she’s

She’s actually very clear that that’s not the way she ever saw herself she said on multiple occasions don’t quote me like don’t say Mrs White said this or sister white said that like don’t quote me until you can actually stand on a thus sayith The Lord Oh you mean the general conference which Ellen White said is the highest Authority on earth when in session and in session they state that her writings are divinely inspired in correcting of inaccurate interpretations of the Bible or Ellen White herself who said quote the Holy Ghost is the author of the scriptures

And of the spirit of Prophecy speaking about her writings these are not to be twisted and turned to mean what may and may want them to mean to carry out man’s ideas and sentiments to carry forward man’s schemes at all hazards close quote the idea that it’s a fringe minority of people who have aant abused Ellen White doesn’t track with reality furthermore she plainly said the Holy Spirit authored both her writings and the Bible trying to downplay this to say there’s still a hierarchy between the two it’s just more sophistry in word games no the Holy Spirit if the Holy

Spirit authored it it carries the same weight doesn’t matter if you say well one’s canonical one’s not canonical that’s a whole different discussion you’re saying the source for both is the same which means it carries the same level of authority stop playing word games there is a common defense to this that you can expect to hear though we find an example of it in his book Allen white Under Fire where Dr Jud Lake claims that the issue in this area is that the critics of adventism operate in a false binary he writes quote ratl Kelly and dowy each make the same

Assumption if Ellen White’s writings are inspired like the Bible writers her Authority is equal with that of the Bible writers and therefore it is on the same level as scripture if this is true then Adventists are inconsistent when as dowy argued they deny that her works are on par with the scriptures the problem with dy’s argument is that he created a false dilemma by limiting the issues to one of only two choices Mrs whites having no inspiration or having one equal to the Bibles there is a third option he failed to recognize Ellen White’s inspiration equals that of the

Bible writers but her prophetic Authority is limited because of the nature of its relationship to the Bible close quote this is to say that when it’s pointed out that her writings must carry the same amount of authority as the Bible since both are authored by God they claim that this is a false dichotomy and there’s a third option she can be equal in Inspiration but not carry the same level of authority well how then is she lesser in Authority you might ask he goes on to explain where he writes quote in light of this Biblical teaching the manifestation of the prophetic gift

After the closing of the Canon that is a genuine Revelation from God doesn’t compromise or challenge the authority of the Canon rather genuine postc canonical prophecy submits itself to be tested and evaluated by the Canon it always harmonizes with the Canon and like the non-canonical prophets never adds new doctrine to previous Revelation close quote Yeah the investigative judgment is absolutely a new doctrine acting like it’s been in the scriptures this whole time yet no one saw it until the 19th century is a cope but secondly he says that she’s lesser in Authority because

She is non-canonical making her subject to the test of scripture yet like we saw earlier the organization simultaneously tells us that we can’t properly understand the scriptures without consulting her commentary on such to help us understand the normative character of it which creates a circular defense when they are telling us that we can’t understand the without her writings which is the official position there’s no getting out of this predicament if the Holy Spirit authored both the Bible and her writings then both would carry the same Authority

Regardless of if one is canonical and the other isn’t and that’s because of the source behind both of them God himself the thing that makes the Canon unique is not that it’s Revelation from God with more Authority than other Revelations from God but it’s Transcendent quality meaning canonical scripture is authoritative Beyond a localized region or time period which is what makes it unique to other Revelations that God gave in human history like with localized prophets in the first century their Authority died when they died whereas Jeremiah Malachi

Ezekiel Etc their Authority lives on despite their death Ellen White’s Authority is not treated like a localized Prophet it is treated like a canonical one as we will see in a little bit from her own mouth with regards to him saying Ellen White said to not quote her until one can say a thus sayeth the Lord yes and Justin she claimed her books are barricaded by a thus sayeth the Lord I site this all the time selected messages book three page 122 quote how many have read carefully Patriarchs and Prophets great controversy and Desire of Ages I wish

All to understand that my confidence in the light that God has given stands firm because I know that the holy spirit’s power magnified the truth and made it honorable saying this is the way walk ye in it in my books the truth is stated barricaded by a thus saith the Lord the Holy Spirit traced these truths upon my heart and mind as indelibly as the law was traced by the Finger of God upon the tables of stone which are now in the ark to be brought forth in the great day when sentence will be pronounced against every evil seducing science produced by

The father of Lies close quote furthermore she also claimed quote the testimonies are unread and unappreciated God has spoken to you light has been shining from his word and from the testimonies and both have been slided and disregarded the result is apparent in the lack of Purity and devotion and Earnest Faith Among Us close quote she also claimed that it’s Satan’s plan to weaken people’s faith in her writings doing so will lead to doubting the Bible outright rejecting the SDA pillar doctrines and ultimately leading a person to predition quote it is

Satan’s plan to weaken the faith of God’s people in the testimony next follows skepticism in regard to the vital points of our faith the pillars of our position then doubt as to the holy scriptures and then the downward march to predition when the testimonies which were once believed are doubted and given up Satan knows the deceived ones will not stop at this and he redoubles his efforts till he launches them into open Rebellion which becomes incurable and ends in destruction close quote and that wasn’t a one-off claim again in quote I know your danger if you

Lose confidence in the testimonies you will drift away from Bible truth I’ve been fearful that many would take a questioning doubting position and in my distress for your souls I would warn you how many will heed the warning as you now hold the testimonies should one be given crossing your track correcting your errors would you feel at perfect Liberty to accept or reject any part or the whole that which you will be least inclined to receive is the very part most needed God and Satan never work in co-partnership the testimonies either bear the signate of God or that of Satan

Close quote right they bear the mark of Satan indeed notice she chastised Adventists for thinking they can disregard or ignore her testimonies which are warnings from God himself to the SDA Church the downplaying of Ellen White by people like Justin is born out of not having read her widely enough to see why the people he claims are abusing her are saying what they are he is either unaware of this plethora of statements or he’s being dishonest and I don’t think people like him really understand the great controversy worldview that they have been equipped

With we can’t even know what is a true thus sayeth the Lord without Ellen White to infallibly guide us in understanding the Bible so says the organization she’s the pilot that we need to submit to um and the thus say of the Lord was the word of scripture yes so then why have a prophet I think the role of the prophet prophetess in in in this context is just to point us back to what the text had already said and I think that this is somewhat in keeping with the roles of of prophets in in the Old Testament and other places where it’s like there is an

Established word and the people of God have gone away from the established word and the prophet or prophetes is is pointing back to the word no come back come back to God be faithful to his word and and I see that this is the role that Ellen White played for for us yes excellent question Matt but no Mr glass’s beard is wrong as we just saw Ellen White said her books are barricaded by a thus sayeth the Lord that’s not the Bible Justin said her purpose was to point us back to what the text already says no this is not true like we saw with GI Butler Ellen White

Gives special insights into things no one else has ever seen before and allegedly gives the SDA Church the theological God Particle to truly understand the Bible and the mind of God the great controversy worldview does not come from the Bible we saw in part one and I’ve shown this Source I don’t even know how many times herb Douglas SDA Theologian in Ministry magazine said that the great controversy theme was given to the SDA Church his words given not discovered you won’t find anything in the Bible about a pre-earth exaltation of Jesus before the creation of the earth which

Made Lucifer jealous this then leading to him rebelling against in the Ten Commandments starting a controversy where God is now on trial having to vindicate himself from these accusations of one of his creatures because none of that is biblical it comes strictly from Ellen White yet that is the core of the avenus Paradigm that their entire system of theology is filtered through it informs for them why Jesus came what he came to do what the cross was about Etc furthermore they entire doctrine of present truth undermines this idea that Ellen just points one back to what the

Bible already says does the bible say that Jesus would return in 1849 like we saw her endorse through her vision earlier does the bible say that the holy kiss is one of the identifying marks of God’s last day people which Ellen endorsed in Vision does the bible say that the time of salvation for the lost ended in the 1840s does it say that Lucifer tried to inquire an interview with Jesus after he began his Rebellion before the you know great controversy really kicked off with its first conflict and battle does the Bible say like we saw in part one that Jesus Took on an Angelic

Nature to try and save Angels prior to incarnating as a man I’m sorry but the SDA church is stuck having to acknowledge that they don’t just believe the Bible they think that because they have a proof text they can cite that justifies them using the verse in any way they see fit and it’s ultimately however Ellen did and the organization yields to that I want to come back to uh the question you asked which is essentially why a prophet um let me flip that around and just ask the question why not a prophet it all throughout scripture from the beginning to the end of of of of

Canonical scripture and and I’m clear I’m saying that with intentionality because the writings of Ellen White are not canonical and there’s never never been an attempt um on the part of the church to to make them canonical or to to have them be like an extra biblical source of authoritative like the Bible is our is our only Creed that was like one of the foundational principles of of that we’re people of the book um but the Bible itself says says that God doesn’t do anything without revealing it to the prophets like there’s this sense all through scripture that the gift of

Prophecy was something that was that was like a norm in in the way that the people of God heard from from God and uh so I’m I guess I’m I’d throw the question back not in a not in a mean-spirited way but just to say like hey guys like do we believe do we believe that God still speaks yes God still speaks and it’s in his fallible inherent word not through false prophets I have all the prophets I need contained in the Holy scriptures and God speaks to me every time I read them and if I want to hear them audibly I just read it out loud the point being

The answer to his question is simple why not a prophet because Jesus is the great prophet priest and king and the prophets like that were until John the Apostle the last of those prophets but he said the writings of Ellen White are not canonical and the SDA church has never tried to make her in Authority does that jive with what I showed earlier folks sources from the highest Authority within the organization the GC no it doesn’t at least as it pertains to her being an authority it’s literally in the fundamental belief itself guys quote this gift is an identifying Mark of the

Remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen White her writings speak with prophetic Authority and provide Comfort guidance instruction and correction to the church they also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested close quote so it’s Ellen White’s writings that tell us that the Bible is the standard you know this because her writings that speak with prophetic Authority tell you this so the guy outright lied when he said the SD church has never tried to make her an authority like what it’s

Literally in the fundamental belief guy H as to her not being canonical this is the Catch 22 the SDA church has been in since Ellen White died first notice what SDA historian Michael Campbell notes about this in his book 1919 quote in many ways Adventist after her death continued functioning as if they still had a living Prophet articles were reprinted or gleaned from her unpublished writings as if she were still alive one final book manuscript appeared about Old Testament history prophets and Kings whose last two chapters of which were pieced together

From previously unpublished articles and manuscripts this completed the five volume conflict of the ages series spanning The Cosmic controversy between Christ and Satan from the birth of sin until its final eradication at the last judgment it would not be until the 1919 Bible Conference that Adventist thought leaders seriously wrestled with what it meant to no longer have a living prophetic voice there were significant ramifications for how the denomination would view her writings as a consequence the reality of living without a prophit loomed large in Adventist Minds at this

Time close quote and this disposition by Adventist that he’s referring to was because of things that she herself said quote abundant light has been given to our people in these last last days whether or not my life is spared my writings will constantly speak and their work will go forward as long as time shall last my writings are kept on file in the office and even though I should not live these words that have been given to me by the Lord will still have life and will speak to the people close quote and this quote physically I’ve always been as a broken vessel and yet

In my old age the Lord continues to move upon me by his holy spirit to write the most important books that have ever come before the churches and the world the lord is evidencing what he can do through weak vessels the life that he spares I will use to his glory and when he sees fit to let me rest his messages shall be of even more vital force than when the frail instrumentality through whom they were delivered was living close quote Yeah that isn’t how a localized Prophet functioned which is why Adventists like these gentlemen are stuck in a catch 22 when they try and

Say that she isn’t seen as canonical they may claim that she’s not canonical and that she doesn’t add to scripture but the organization doesn’t simply teach that Ellen White had the New Testament gift of Prophecy they may use that language to try and make it seem less innocuous but the facts and practical way in which she functions are evidence to the contrary she functions like a canonical Prophet even if they say she’s not canonical so I like doing these reaction videos because I think it’s beneficial for Christians to see uh just how hard it can be to pinpoint what adventism

Actually teaches whether knowingly or unknowingly Adventists have been given a certain way to say and phrase things typically based on how the organization has taught them the language and Buzz phrases have gone through numerous revisionary processes to make it more plausibly deniable like we saw back in part one with fundamental belief number 18 where they used to claim that Ellen White is a continuing and authoritative source of Truth the belief now says like we just saw she speaks with prophetic Authority are we really supposed to believe they

Don’t still teach or believe that she is a continuing and authoritative source of truth of course not they’ve just worded it in such a way now that gives less it makes it more innocuous it keeps the heat off the organization and it makes it appear like they’re just another Protestant or Evangelical Group which is what they want to be the case but they are not I say this a lot and I’ll continue doing so as more and more people are waking up to this adventism is its own unique thing with their own unique Mission and message that only they have we read in

The lesson on page 106 Central to Mission God’s mission is the message God’s message that is the gospel the message the author writes in a real sense is the mission the message is the mission we must never lose sight of our special calling and Mission special calling and Mission special calling and Mission which is to Proclaim to a Lost World The Hope found in the Everlasting gospel as well as to warn the world of what will one day come upon it the author goes on to say it is urgent that the gospel be proclaimed and the serious news about Satan’s strategies be exposed

And that is exactly what the Three Angels messages and our mission are all about so we are now going to be taking a deeper dive into these Three Angels messages which are the the last message we what we call present truth gospel present truth gospel present truth gospel the gospel in its present truth form to be proclaimed to the last day inhabitants of planet Earth they do not share in the same missions singular Mission and message as the Christian church I’ve shown this from their own fundamental beliefs book their website their prophetes and numerous other

Primary sources from the 19th to the 21st centuries they think it’s their duty to warn Christians specifically Christians to come join them or they won’t be prepared for the second coming you’ll only be prepared for Jesus’s soon return if you join the SDA church and accept the great controversy worldview and its Theology and Adventist especially those in positions of leadership they need to be more forthright about this not try and play both sides of the field it’s dishonest and the avenus propheus actually spoke against such where she wrote quote then Brethren use wisely the

Precious light that God has given presenting it to the people in the meekness and gentleness of Christ meet the Prejudice of the people with an invitation such as Philip gave Nathaniel come and see say if seventh day Adventists have the truth and can prove it so from the Oracles of God you do not wish to be found fighting against God we are to be bodies of light proclaiming Christ and his love to the people and presenting all our doctrines in the true relation to this important theme we shall have to meet people as full of hatred to our work as were the priests and rulers in

The days of Christ to his work it is our duty however to diffuse light in every direction and lay out in clear lines what the sinner must do in order to obtain eternal life close quote and that isn’t what these gentlemen did here they blurred the lines whether knowingly or unknowingly and put the SDA light under a bushel in embarrassment which is par for the course with the Neo Adventists that have sought to reimagine and Rebrand adventism as something that it is not anyways if you like what we’re doing here smash that like button subscribe so you can be updated next

Time we go live and until next time May Christ richly bless you in the grace and peace won by him and his vicarious death on the cross for Sinners Hallelujah and Marin ho to apostate did he say that come on man