Diet Deception: SDA Health Message vs. The Gospel | OPEN MIC #4

We are not saved by being vegan. I Nancy and I try 95% to be vegan. We’re certainly vegetarians which I would offer to all of you as well. But we’re not saved by that. What’s up y’all? As always, thank you for being here. What we just heard was a snippet, if you recall, of Ted Wilson’s annual council address from last year. We listened to it in total back then. It’s about a 4hour stream, so you can check that out if you have not seen it. But I wanted us to be reminded of that statement as we lay the foundation for this evening before then opening the doors and the floor for SDAs

To change our minds regarding the health message which entails more than just dietary things. It reminds me before we get too far in here, let me make sure I put the link in the chat. All right. The link is in the chat and it is pinned for those of you Adventists only please who end up wanting to join after we do some foundation lane. But like I said, the Adventist health message folks entails more than just dietary things. So, more specifically, like the stream is titled, we want our mind changed that the SDM message on health reform is a part of

The gospel. That is the working thesis for tonight. And we will look at the baseline for that claim momentarily. This past week, we received uh several comments on this specific subject that all claimed everything on our website, everything in video. It’s all out of context, easily refuted, so easy that none of them bother to demonstrate the assertion. So, that’s in part why we do these open mics. If you think this is the case, step on up and let’s hear it. Okay, as a reminder again, I just say this again. This time is for SDAs to join. If you are not an Adventist, please refrain and

Engage from the chat. Like last week, if we end up having no or a couple weeks ago, if we end up having no takers, we will do audience Q&A. So, stand by for that. But first, let’s look at a couple of paricopies from the word of God and do some quick foundation laying. Okay. The Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul before laying out his treatis and apologetic of the Christian faith and gospel says this in Romans 1 1617. For I am not ashamed of the gospel. For it is the what? Power of God for salvation to everyone who believes to the Jew first and also to the Greek

Means all people groups for in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith as it is written the righteous shall live by faith thus the reading of God’s holy word. So Paul begins his apologetic in defense of the Christian faith by stating that the gospel is the power of God to salvation for all that believe it. Which would mean that whatever the gospel is, it must be believed by faith to be saved. It has to do with salvation. It’s not every doctrinal belief you possibly can find in scripture. It specifically is a message that has to

Do with salvation. This gospel is for all people groups, Jews and Gentiles alike. It is transcendent and universal to be taken to all people. The same Paul in Ephesians 1 following a similar structure. We’ve looked at this as well a lot. In him we have obtained an inheritance. talking about in Christ, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also when you heard the word of truth,

The gospel of your salvation and believed in him were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it to the praise of his glory. Thus the reading of God’s holy word. So very simple point even the most basic reader can grasp. Paul writing to believers states that when they heard the word of truth, which is the gospel, believed that gospel, they were then regenerated, given the Holy Spirit as a down payment of the inheritance they will receive by being in Christ Jesus. Again, this demonstrates the gospel has to do

Specifically with salvation. And finally, another chapter 1, Galatians 1. The same Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul states there is only one gospel. Any other gospel is a counterfeit. It’s not real. It’s cursed by God. Can’t save anyone. Followed by saying that the true and only gospel came from Jesus Christ to the apostles. As we will see in verse 12, Galatians 1 6-12. I am not uh I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel. Not that there is another one, but there

Are some who trouble you and they want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preach to you, the apostles, let him be accursed. That means damned as we have said before. So now I say again, as if it’s not already abundantly clear, if anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. For I am now speaking or or for for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would

Not be a servant of Christ. For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man’s gospel. For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it. But I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ. Thus, the reading of God’s holy word. There’s only one gospel, my friend. The one that Jesus revealed to the apostles. Any other message that’s branded or called the gospel is not the gospel. It has to be what Jesus revealed to the apostles who then went about proclaiming that gospel, people hearing it, believing it, being regenerated by the

Power of the Holy Spirit, and so on. That’s how the church has grown for millennia. If the apostles were not preaching it, it’s not the gospel. The deposit of the gospel that we have is in the New Testament from the apostles. Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God. Romans 10. How will they hear without a preacher? Someone proclaiming it to them. Which means we have to use words, not just actions. So tonight that is where I am standing. Okay. Firmly planted on the good news of the person and work of Jesus. That’s the good news. That’s what gospel means. Who

Jesus is and what he did by believing on him, turning to him in faith and repentance. Having trust and faith in his person and work. You will then be given the Holy Spirit as a down payment. seal of your salvation in Christ, made a new creature in Christ, forgiven all of your sins, covered in the holy blood of Jesus, which cleanses you from all sin. Now, for the contention, because of course, through the screen, I can hear the scratching of many Adventist heads and people asking, “But Adventists believe that.” Well, you’re in luck because that’s what tonight is for. If you think

This is the same gospel that the SDA church is heralding, the floor will be open to you. But let me continue laying a little bit more groundwork for the objections so it is abundantly clear as to why I am saying what I’m saying. As per usual, we’re going to look here at a gamut of SDA figures, primarily Ellen White, because whether Adventists like it or not, she’s the highest authority in the SDA church that we can go to. She claims to be shown this stuff directly from God. People’s souls depend on accepting it, including mine. And the SDA church upholds that supposed light

As being from God. Okay. So, first claim one health message is from God. One of many quotes reviewing Harold toward the end of her life, April 14. She’s not 19, 22. No, she’s about to croak in like a decade. What does she say? Quote, “This was the light given from God. God worked that the medical missionary work might stand on the highest vantage ground, that it might be known that 7th Adventists have a God working with them, a God who has a constant oversight of his work. God does not endorse the efforts put forth by different ones to make the work of Dr. Kellogg as hard as

Possible in order to build themselves up. God gave the light on health reform and those who rejected it rejected God. Close quote. So the message of health reform is from God. The whole thing. If you reject it, you reject God. It’s not just vegetarian and veganism. We’re going to look at a few of these other things that it entails, but even that is not by by by any means all of them. So that’s claim one. The list on health reform came from God supposedly. Now let’s look at some of this light. Claim two. The health message is a part of the gospel.

First quote, testimonies for the church, volume 1, page 486. The health reform I was shown is a part of the third angel’s message and is just as closely connected with it as are the arm and the hand with the human body. Close quote. So, the message of health reform is a part of the third angel’s message. Apparently, it’s found in Revelation 14 as a part of the everlasting gospel. But to make it even more abundantly clear, quote, “The Lord calls upon you to show your colors,” talking to Adventists, “Stand as eternal health reformers. Do not be in such a condition that when you are

Asked if you are a health reformer, you’ll blush for shame.” No, you want to say, “Certainly, I’m a health reformer in every respect, and I want to help others to be health reformers.” This work is the right hand of the gospel. It is this health reform, this healthful living that is clear that is clearing the way for us right to the hearts of thousands who have nearly killed themselves with their improper diet. Now let us begin to save them. Close quote. The idea that the avenous diet is just a universal thing for all body types. But she says it’s a message that’s not

Only going to save you physically by prolonging your life, but it’ll save your soul. It’s part of the gospel. What does the Bible say about the gospel? It’s the power of God to salvation. This is the right hand of that. Okay, which is further evidenced by this quote. The Apostle Paul exhorts the church. I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God that you present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. Men then can make their bodies unholy by sinful indulgences. If unholy, they are unfitted to be

Spiritual worshippers and are not worthy of heaven. If man will cherish the light that God in mercy gives upon health reform, he may be sanctified through the truth and fitted for immortality. But if he disregards that light and lives in violation of natural law, he must pay the penalty. Close quote. So, if one doesn’t adhere to this message, you’ll be unholy, not fit for heaven because you’re in sin, which we’re going to get into. The Bible says the gospel is the power of God to salvation to all that believe it. If this message is a part of the

Gospel, then yes, Ted, you guys either have to say this isn’t part of the gospel and Ellen is wrong, or it is part of the gospel, which would mean you guys do teach it’s a part of the power of God to salvation for those that believe it. You may not use the wording and say we’re saved by this. Well, at that point, it’s just semantics. But the Bible nowhere says this. It nowhere says believing in a vegetarian and vegan lifestyle is a part of the power of God to salvation for all that believe it. The apostles did not go around preaching that. That was not part

Of the gospel message. And yet Paul, yes, Paul talked about food, but he didn’t say it was the gospel. So just pointing to somewhere in the Bible that talks about food to then say, see, well, it must be part of the gospel because it’s in the Bible. Well, no. The gospel has to do specifically with what we’ve looked at in those other prickies. It’s a it’s a message that specifically deals with salvation, not any biblical doctrine possible. But that’s claimed two. The health message is a part of the gospel supposedly. The SDA church is not merely giving suggestions in this area. They

Love downplay it like Ted did, but no, it is absolutely salvational in the SDA system of theology, the system, which is precisely why they believe it is a part of the power of God for salvation. They believe it’s part of the gospel. Okay. Claim three. vital force. Early SDAs ascribed to the vital force theory of the day. For those that do not know, Ellen White was not the only health reformer of the 19th century. And oftentimes she is just taking things from the day, borrowing from others, etc. However, the issue for the SDA church is that the people that Ellen borrowed

From didn’t claim it came directly from God. Ellen did and it was her various comments that led to early SDAs adopting these sorts of things. So for example SDA pioneer JN Lowber he will define exactly what they meant by vital force. Okay this is from his book handbook of health. Quote what is the vital force of the human body? It is that power placed in the human body at its birth which will enable the body under favorable circumstances to live to a certain age. It is this which enables the body to rally and bring to bear its energies in throwing off disease. Close quote.

So another example of this from John Harvey Kellogg. This was in 1877 from his his book plain facts for old and young. He says, quote, “The reproductive act is the most exhaustive of all vital acts.” I’ll let you fill in the gaps there, folks, for what he’s talking about. Its effect upon an undeveloped person is to growth, weaken the constitution, and dwarf the intellect. Close quote. Ellen said what Kellogg Ellen said what Kellogg was teaching came from God included in the light on health reform. Kellogg was saying stuff like this. And yes, this is before Ellen and Kellogg’s

Falling out in 1907, 30 years prior, which is why she said things like the following quote, “Many parents do not obtain the knowledge that they should in the married life. They are not guarded lest Satan take advantage of them and control their minds and their lives. They do not see that God requires them to control their married lives from any excess. But very few feel it to be a religious duty to govern their passions. They have united themselves in marriage to the object of their choice and therefore reason that marriage sanctifies the indulgence of the baser passions.

Even men and women professing godliness give loose rain to their lustful passions and have no thought that God holds them accountable for the expenditure of vital energy which weakens their hold on life and enervates their entire system. Close quote. So God told Ellen White that married couples should not be having frequent sex because it is an expenditure of your vital energy, your vital force. Having intercourse with your spouse weakens your hold on life and disrupts your entire system. And God apparently endorsed vital theory, but specifically couples frequently

Doing the deed will kill you faster and God’s going to hold you accountable for it. It’s going to expend out your vital force. It’s coming from God. So God put his stamp of approval on vital force. would love to hear this one from scripture where God clearly has spoken on how married couples are to enjoy themselves in moderation or to to limit it down because it’s going to lead to draining your vital force. Okay. Claim four, meat, tea, coffee, sinful. Getting into temperance stuff here. Quote, “Every true Christian will have control of his appetites and passions.

Unless he’s free from the bondage of appetite, he cannot be a true obedient servant of Christ. The indulgence of appetite and passion blunts the effect of truth upon the heart. It is impossible for the spirit and the power of truth to sanctify a man, soul, body, and spirit when he is controlled by sensual desires. Close quote. Yikes. So, everyone that struggles with the sin of gluttony, sorry. Your heart has been so blunted to the truth that it’s impossible for the spirit. It’s impossible for the spirit and the power of truth to sanctify you. So get busy. Even though I basically

Just told you it’s pointless because the reason you’re in the sorry predicament you’re in is because your heart has been blunted to hearing the truth. And not even the power of truth, not even the power of truth is able to sanctify and overcome the gospel. Power of God to salvation all that believe it. Romans 1:16. Impossible for it to sanctify a person who struggles with their appetite. Not even the spirit can overcome it. Got it. Ellen’s husband, James, in Bible hygiene. Quote, “The victory of our triumphant head over the most subtle temptations

During his 40 days fast and the glorious promise of reigning with him in his in his throne on condition that we overcome as he overcame.” establish the fact that one of the highest attainments in the Christian life is to control appetite and that without this victory all hope of heaven is vain. Close quote. This is from the chapter entitled the gospel of health. So Jesus’s temptation in the wilderness is a parallel to us in life having to also overcome food temptation. So while on probation, you need to overcome the desire to eat uh meat, tea, coffee,

Whatever else that God said through Ellen to to to to be immoral. Without that victory, hope in heaven is vain. Okay. Again, Ellen White quote, “Meat should not be placed before our children. It influ it its influence is to excite and strengthen the lower passions and has a tendency to deaden the moral powers. Grains and fruits prepared free from Greece and in as natural as condition as possible should be the food for the tables of all who claim to be preparing for translation to heaven. Close quote. Ah, if you’re wanting to get prepared for heaven, remember Jesus is coming. He’s

Coming. He’s coming. He’s coming. Get ready. Get ready. ready. You want to be prepared, you got to get working on this health stuff. This is just one of the areas. Oh, no, no, no, no. But, but it’s not salvational. We don’t teach it you’re saved by this. No, you just teach that this is one of the conditions that one must meet in order to make it. No, no, no, no. But we don’t teach we’re saved by it. Okay. Semantics again. She says, “Meat makes you dull and deadens your morals, making you an immoral person. And if you’re truly awaiting the return of Christ, you won’t

Eat meat because immoral people are not fitted for immortality.” Just as a as a note, immorality and immortality are not the same. But I think this woman confused the two in the same vein. Again and again, I have been shown. Again and again, she’s been shown from God. Again and again, not just once, not just a one-off, again. And again, I’ve been shown that God is trying to lead us back step by step to his original design, that man should subsist upon the natural products of the earth. Among those who are waiting for the coming of the Lord, meat eating will

Eventually be done away. flesh will cease to be a form uh to form a part of their diet. We should ever keep this end in view and endeavor to work steadily toward it. I cannot think that in the practice of flesh eating, we are in harmony with the light which God has been pleased to give us. Close quote. So again and again, she was claimed to be shown that God was trying to lead people back to his original design, not just clean meats. Not just clean meats, Adventists. All meats done away with. It will cease to be a part of your diet if you’re truly waiting for the return

Of Christ. If you’re eating meat, you’re unfit for immortality. God’s trying. He just can’t quite seem to get it. If it makes you unfit for immortality because it makes you immoral, that means it has to be accepted and followed in order to be saved. So again, yes, you guys don’t teach verbatim that you’re saved by it. Notice that’s the language that Ted used. You guys teach you need to do it in order to be saved. Or actually the more accurate way would be to say in order that you are savable, that you meet the conditions for Jesus to be fair and just

In saving you. Because again, this all is downstream of the great controversy. But those of us that eat meat, our moral sensibilities have apparently been so blunted that uh we we can’t understand the the truth. Apparently, apparently that’s what scripture teaches. Again, quote, “Tea and coffee drinking is a sin, an injurous indulgence, which, like other evils, injures the soul. These darling idols create an excitement, a morbid action of the nervous system, and after the immediate influence of the stimulants is gone, it lets down below par just to that degree

That it is stimulating properties elevated above par.” Close quote. Let’s hear how tea and coffee is a sin and injures one’s soul. Notice no clarifier or or moderation. Blanket statements. You consume tea, you injure your soul. That’s a sin. Let’s hear that. Tea drinking is a sin. If the Bible clearly teaches this, and this is only Ellen expounding upon something that’s already present in the Bible, let’s hear where. That’s the claim from the SDA church. She never adds anything to the Bible. She only ever comments on what’s there. Okay. Again, quote, “Meat eating deranges the

System, beclouds the intellect, blunts the moral sensibilities. Such a diet contaminates the blood and stimulates the lower passions. It prevents vigor of thought and infeebles the perceptions so that God and the truth are not understood.” Close quote. So eating meat deranges your system. It beclouds your intellect and it blunts your morals. It contaminates your blood and stimulates animal passions which infeeble your perceptions and keep you from being able to understand the truth. Another quote, God has written his law upon every nerve and muscle, every fiber

And function of the human body. The indulgence of unnatural appetite, whether for tea, coffee, tobacco, or liquor, is in temperance, and is at war with the laws of life and health. By using these forbidden articles, a condition of things is created in the system which the creator never designed. This indulgence in any of the members of the human family is sin. The eating of foods that does not make good blood is working against the laws of our physical organism and is a violation of the law of God. The cause produces the effect. Suffering, disease,

And death are the sure penalty of indulgence. Close quote. So consuming coffee, tea, tobacco, liquor, it’s a sin. Not overindulgence. consuming it period. And she said earlier that meat eating contaminates a person’s blood. So again, any meat eating, not just unclean meats, all meats, is a sin and violates the law of God because the law is written on every fiber of man’s being and it defiles the blood and anything that does that is a sin. Again, know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost, which is in you, which ye have uh which which ye have

Have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are brought are bought with a price. Therefore, pure uh glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s. When men take any course which needlessly expends their vitality or beclouds their intellect, they sin against God. They do not glorify him in their body and spirit which are his. Close quote. So first Corinthians which is dealing with sexual immorality against your own body is now strung out all the way to applying to anything that she says diminishes your vital force like having too much

Intercourse with your spouse which is actually commanded by the way. It’s like I think I think back to the the Puritan colonies. They disciplined when when they exercised church discipline in the Puritan churches. They disciplined couples for not being active enough um in the bedroom and their warrant for that was scripture. But I digress. So she says, “Meat beclouds the intellect again which expends your vital force. So it’s a sin.” which means Jesus ate meat and sinned. That’s the logical conclusion. Not just that, but he performed a miracle feeding people meat.

He’s all knowing, which would mean that Jesus did a miracle that then caused others to sin by be clouding their minds and defiling their blood, including children. Another quote, “In this fast age, the less exciting the food, the better. Condiments are interest. Mustard, peppers, spices, pickles, and other things of light character irritate the stomach and make the blood feverish and impure.” The inflamed condition of the drunker’s stomach is often pictured as illustrating the effect of alcoholic liquors. A similarly inflamed condition is produced by the use of irritating

Condiments. Soon ordinary food does not satisfy the appetite. The system feels a want a craving for something more stimulating. Close quote. So condiments, spices, and pickles are sinful because they make the blood feverish and impure. And she said, consuming anything that defiles the blood is a sin. And remember, doing so is immoral because it’s sin, which means you’re unfit for immortality and won’t be saved. Your meateing evidences that you’re not truly waiting for the return of Christ supposedly. If you were, you’d give up meat eating. So, let’s hear this from scripture, my

Friend. All right, ladies. Next one is for you all. Hair pieces cause madness. Yeah, this was part of the health message. Quote, “Fashion loads the head of women with artificial braids and pads which do not add to their beauty but give an unnatural shape to the head. The hair is strained and forced into unnatural positions and it is not possible for the heads of these fashionable ladies to be comfortable. The artificial hair and pads covering the base of the brain heat and excite the spinal nerves centering in the brain. The head should ever be

Kept cool. The heat caused by these artificial in the these artificials induces the blood to the brain. The action of the blood upon the lower or animal organs of the brain causes unnatural activity tends to reck recklessness in morals and the mind and heart is in danger of being corrupted. As the animal organs are excited and strengthened, the moral are infeebled. The moral and intellectual powers of the mind become servants to the animal. Close quote. Sorry ladies. Your artificial extensions, braids, etc. are inhibiting your morals and your intellectual powers function

Like an animal, but only if they’re artificial. If you have naturally thick locks and braids, which would also be uh uh I mean, no different. You’re in the clear if they’re natural. You’re just not in the clear if they’re unnatural. Remember, they don’t add to your beauty. They just give your head an unnatural shape. So says God, because this is from him supposedly. It’s part of the larger umbrella of the health reform message. But then she goes on to say, “Many have lost their reason and become hopelessly insane.” A couple paragraphs later, “By following this deforming

Fashion, yet the slaves of fashion will continue to thus dress their heads and suffer horrible disease and premature death rather than be out of fashion.” Close quote. Mercy. I mean, seriously, your wing is going to kill you. Like, sorry chemo patient that lost all of your hair and you feel shame and a wig helps you in your recovery. I know we were able to kill the cancer cells with radiation and basically nuking your body, but now the wig that you’re going to use to help you recover from this craziness is going to lead to disease and premature death.

Adventist, let’s hear this defended from the Bible. Ellen White never adds to scripture, right? She only ever comments on what’s present. And while you’re at it, let’s hear this one as well. Quote, “They’ve removed this. By the way, you have to go to the original here to those who are receiving the seal of God, the broadside, because if you don’t, they removed it from the other places.” quote, “My dear brethren and sisters, let the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ be in your minds continually, and let them crowd uh uh crowd worldly thoughts and cares from

The mind. When you lie down and when you rise up, let them be your meditation. Live and act wholly in reference to the coming of the son of man. The ceiling time is very short and soon will be over. Now is the time to make our calling and election sure. while the four angels are holding the four winds. If any among us are sick, let us not dishonor God by applying to earthly physicians. But apply to the God of Israel. If we follow his directions, James 5, the sick will be healed. God’s promise cannot fail. Have faith in God and trust wholly in him that when Christ, who is our

Life, shall appear, we may appear with him in glory. Close quote. So the end of time was almost over as the sealing period of God’s people had supposedly already begun in 1849. Remember this is why James White said stuff like it’s present truth for this time to believe that the time of trouble is going to come upon our generation. They were the 144,000 in Revelation. And it’s all these statements from Ellen White during this period saying time is almost over. Time is almost over that’s influencing all that because that was the case. Don’t dishonor God by using an

Earthly physician. That’s what God told Ellen. Well, it was just, oh, that was a that that was for that time. Okay. Yes. So, let’s hear someone defend this and not just use the well, that was present truth for then. No, it wasn’t. God did not tell this woman to not use an earthly doctor for a small stint of human history and then now all of a sudden it’s just arbitrarily okay to use earthly doctors again. So much for all those SDA health institutions, nurses, doctors that their schools produce, right? So much for Linda Weimar. And finally, which is what tonight will

Give Adventist the opportunity to do. Adventists are obligated to take this message to the world, which again, we haven’t looked at it in full. She says, quote, “Prepare workers to go out into the highways and hedges. We need wise nursery men who will transplant trees to different localities and give them advantages that they may grow. It is the positive duty of God’s people to go into the regions beyond. Let forces be set at work to clear new ground to establish new centers of influence wherever an opening can be found. Rally workers who possess true

Missionary zeal and let them go for forth to diffuse light and knowledge far and near. Let them take the living principles of health reform into the communities that a large uh that to a large degree are ignorant of these principles. Close quote. And Adventists aren’t only supposed to take this to the world. She says they’re to defend it. Quote, “The light we received upon the third angel’s message is true light. This message part of the third angel’s message. Remember, there is to be no change in the general features of our work. It is to stand as

Clear and distinct as prophecy has made it. We are to enter into no confederacy with the world, supposing that by so doing we could accomplish more. If any stand in the way to hinder to hinder the advancement of the work in the lines that God has appointed, they will displease God. No line of truth that has made the 7th Adventist people what they are is to be weakened. We have the old landmarks of truth, experience, and duty, and we are to stand firmly in defense of our principles in full view of the world. Close quote. So Adventists are called to take these

Life-saving truths to the world in full view and defend them because the message of health reform is one of the seven pillar doctrines of the SDA church. It’s a part of the third angel’s message as we saw earlier, not just the mark of the beast and the Sabbath. If you want to throw an SDA for a spin, I love doing this. They’ll try and grill you sometimes. Do you even know what the third angel’s message is, bro? And I’ll say, yeah, health reform. and they go, “What?” No. Gives you insight into if they actually know. Yeah, I know it includes the mark

Of the beast and the Sabbath, but that’s not it. So, spin it back on. See how how well you actually understand Adventism. It’s why the two things that people predominantly know about him is they’re vegetarians who go to church on Saturday. But like the rest of Adventist truth, if we don’t if we don’t accept this, we’ll be lost and the wrath of God is going to get poured out on us. That’s the rub. Not that Adventists might be passionate about health or nutrition. My wife is into all all of that. I’m into that. But she also doesn’t tell people they’ll

Be damned and condemned before God for not listening to her. That Jesus is speaking. Jesus is the one that told me this. The SDA church claims this message is a part of the gospel. Paul says the gospel is the power of God to salvation for all that believe it. So the gospel is something to be believed that saves a person, which is precisely what he says in Ephesians 1. When you were dead in your sins, heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed, were sealed with the Holy Spirit, who is the deposit of our inheritance in Christ. Was that

Message that Paul was preaching, did it include vegan vegetarianism? You have to believe all this stuff about Adventist health reform? Well, no. That’s present truth message. Okay. Hey, the apostles weren’t preaching it then. It’s not the gospel. It doesn’t go back to what Jesus revealed to the apostles. Then again, Ellen says that Jesus preached the health message to them at his ascension. But yes, that would mean the gospel that one believes is the power of God to salvation and leads a person to being sealed with the Holy Spirit and saved, including believing. You would have to

Include in that wigs causing madness, meat eating is a sin, it’ll damn you, all meat, period, etc. And we didn’t even get into God supposedly showing Ellen White soft porn regarding people masturbating and being in sin and all the supposed health problems that it leads to like that a woman’s head caves in. Yes, she says that in appeal to mothers, but here are the five claims we would love to hear defended from scripture. primarily claims uh uh one and two because the others are singled uh things out from underneath that larger umbrella. You can start sending questions through.

By the way, folks, we have nobody in Q. But here are the claims. One, God gave the light on health reform. Two, health message is a part of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Remember, gospel is given by Jesus Christ to the apostles. Galatians 1:12. Paul says there’s only one. Galatians 1:9. Claim three, intercourse should be limited because it drains your vital force. Consuming any meat, claim four, any meat, tea, tobacco, and coffee is sinful. And five, wigs cause madness, disease, and premature death. These claims all nestle up underneath the message of health reform. They all

Come from God. And Ellen White supposedly never contradicts scripture or even adds anything to it. She only ever comments on what’s already there. That’s the SDA church’s claim. And then those of us who disagree need to believe this stuff and get busy or we are going to be damned because we are immoral and unfit for immortality.

None of what she said has anything to do with the good news about the person and work of Jesus. folks. Much of it’s not even correct, such as vital theory. So now’s the opportunity. Step up. Show us from scripture that the SDA health message is part of the gospel of Jesus Christ. That the apostles taught this as the gospel. Not that there’s a limited one and a fuller one. There’s one and a bunch of counterfeits that are cursed. That’s what the Bible teaches. As a reminder, only join, please, if you are a Seventh Day Adventist. Everyone else can engage from the audience and

Those that join. It is not a time to preach. I will let you get out what you need to within reason. But if it turns into a disputation and a treatise, I’m eventually going to cut you off and get us back on track. Okay? Like I said, if no one wants to step up, we will start with Q&A and see if any do. When you send a question through, please put a Q at the beginning of it to help kind of uh sift through uh better and more quickly those of you that are asking questions versus just engaging in the chat. Let’s scroll back here some.

This person says, “Hm, for some reason, Adventists live 10 plus years longer than others. I don’t know why SDA still tout this.” It’s like, Ray, do you understand that in the blue zones, a number of your blue zones aren’t even adhering to the health message? Like the one in Okinawa, Japan, one of the primary ingredients that they eat is pork. In Greece, the blue zone in Greece, the a huge part of the diet in in that location is wine. But again, this is an old statistic that SDAs have just continued to parrot when No, it’s not true. It it’s select. It’s

Just like when they do the whole Ellen White’s the most translated author ever. Yeah. That’s no different than when a a a a Congress person writes a book and then has their super PAC by millions of copies and then they get labeled a a New York Times bestselling author and then they start saying, “I’m a New York Times bestselling author.” Yeah, because you game to the system. You don’t mass translate unsolicited and then say, “Oh, look, she’s the most translated author ever. Wow.” Yeah, nice try. It’s the same thing here with this. It’s like when you look at

The data, no, this isn’t true. This is I talked about this almost a year ago on on the platform about how very skewed um data in in that regard that unfortunately they just keep uh keep paring. It’s just like the Adventism is the the SDA church is the fastest growing church in the world. We heard this one today. I hear that probably once a week. all the standard talking points except they leave out the fact that David Trim even admitted himself uh they’re losing 42 people 42% of people for every person that’s baptized in almost one is leaving four out of 10

People are leaving and the excuse is oh well they just weren’t cared for enough they weren’t loved on enough they they they left because they didn’t feel connection yeah well Okay. Felix Rodriguez says, “The gospel is about the whole of life, sin, death, and suffering. Living a healthy life is a demonstration of the gospel. We have to practice what we believe.” This is SDA 101. All right, sir. Join the stream and let’s discuss and look if the SDA health message is a part of the gospel. This is just an assertion. This is just an assertion. So, join the the stream and

Let’s discuss that and see if what you’re saying actually fits into what the biblical witness says. Okay. What else do we have here?

Nathan Meter asked question. How many abortions do the hospitals do? I have no idea. I don’t have the specific numbers off of that. So, I can’t uh can’t speak into the specificity that uh specificity of that, but that is an area that I’d like to do more digging on. I don’t know. That’s a an area that So, for those that don’t know, the SDA affiliated hospitals are technically not affiliated with the SDA church anymore. Um, I mean, they still are technically, but they’re they’re not. Uh, and so getting that data, uh, precisely, um, I don’t know exactly how to go about doing

That. You could probably find it out there. So, uh, maybe that’s something I will look into more, but I can’t answer you on the specifics of that. So, sorry about that. Come on, Felix. Jesus wants us saved and healthy. That doesn’t demonstrate that the Adventist health message is a part of the gospel, sir. That and it’s not mutually exclusive. It’s either it’s either the Adventist health message is part of the gospel or Jesus doesn’t want you to be healthy. That’s called the false dilemma fallacy. And not just that, but it just it’s a nonsequittor.

It doesn’t logically follow that if the SDA health message is untrue, you therefore or it’s not part of the gospel, Jesus therefore doesn’t care about your your health. Who said that? Who said that? I just got done saying my wife is super into health and nutrition. I’m into health and nutrition. That doesn’t mean it’s part of the gospel. So, join, tap that link up top and let’s have a discussion about it and not just spitball from the the comment section. Demonstrate this. This is supposed to be lifegiving. And the the Adventist prophetist said

That Adventists are supposed to stand publicly, take a stand for this and defend it. So, hop on and let’s discuss it. Alpha Matter asks, “Miles, what year did SDA’s implement the Old Testament food laws?” Uh, I’m gonna have to cite the website for this really quick because I don’t remember the specific year off the top of my head. Let’s see here. But I could probably find it for you. It’s been a minute since I’ve looked

On this one in particular.

Um well, and I hate dead air. I don’t want to just sit and browse here while we’re on uh on stream, especially if people ask other questions. I don’t have this for you off the top of my head. It was relatively early on. Um it was before Tithe. I know that much because again, I’m I’m now digging into the filing cabinet of my brain. Believe it or not, I’m not omnisient. I don’t remember literally every single thing. Um even stuff that I’ve written about on here is just not realistic, obviously. But um I I know it’s before tithe because uh I remember uh reading one of James White’s

Um not a dissertation but essentially his his propagation for why the uh tithe is a valid practice for them because well then he appeals to the uh the application of Leviticus 11 and says well it’s consistent for us to also apply tithe because of you know then he appeals to that. So it was sometime before uh you know 1858 which is when the tithing was um all of a sudden Ellen you know gets a vision to confirm that oh yeah they need to be tithing uh conveniently when the movement is uh hobbling financially. So um and it’s been very lucrative for them ever since.

So sometime before 1858 almost all of their uh well not just almost all of their foundational doctrines were hammered out before uh 58 that was the tithing was the last one. So regarding the visionary doctrines the seven visionary doctrines. So you want to look more at that you can go to our website and just uh up top type in seven visionary and the the job will pop down. Kenny asks, “Question, did SDA or Hebrew Roots movement come first? They seem to have a lot of overlapping doctrines.” Uh, yeah. It’s funny you mentioned that. I was just talking with uh our friend

CMB, the Ambassador. He’s done a lot of stuff on BHI. Uh, and they’re kind of in that same lane of of Hebrew Roots. They’re like a it’s almost like an offshoot of Hebrew Roots. Um, I don’t know enough about the history of Hebrew Roots to be able to tell you the the age of that uh movement. Um, but that’s a really good question. I see you you’ve mentioned as well Sean Griffin has a lot of similar views. Uh, yeah, he does. Um, and I don’t know the details of of his background, but I’ve listened to enough of him to know that he’s definitely influenced by a lot of that same stuff.

He thinks there’s a literal sanctuary in heaven and Jesus is he he’s different than the SDAs in that if I understand his position correctly, he believes Jesus is up there doing sacrifices. um his god is uh apparently has to use the restroom as well. Um he’s admitted. So I can’t answer you on that, but yes, there’s a lot of crossover. And it’s not even really just those two movements either. It’s just Judaizers in general. They have a ton of things that they have in common. They also tend to want to downplay the Apostle Paul. Um they tend to try and do like the hyper red

Letterism sometimes or um you know, well Paul wasn’t really an apostle, these type things. Um, so that would maybe make for some good content. You’re giving me some good ideas here. Maybe I needed to brush up on my uh Hebrew roots movement knowledge and see about uh any sort of crossovers um between the two of them. Well, folks, if we end up not getting any SDAs and we don’t have too many questions tonight, we’re going to end up closing shop. But hey, we’re gonna keep doing these open mics, folks, because the purpose of this is to demonstrate, give you an opportunity. We get lots of

Comments from Adventists. Lots of comments. Not Not possible to even get back to all of them. Not even possible to read all of them. It doesn’t even notify me about all of them. And even if it did, I couldn’t I I just don’t have the bandwidth to to be doing that. We don’t have the bandwidth to do that. But periodically, I’ll see the comments. This is unfair. Why aren’t you bringing any Adventists on here? Folks, you got to understand, don’t assume the door is just closed off to to people. Don’t assume we haven’t tried. But then what happens is the SDA that’s

Willing to come on comes on and then Adventists complain and say, “Well, that wasn’t a sound representative. You’re punching down. You’re going for lowanging fruit.” Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. So, we’re going to keep doing these open mics to show Philippians 1, baby. Philippians 1. Read it tonight, folks. Read Philippians 1. Let’s do that right now. Okay, before we close up close up shop, but we are going to keep doing these because we’re going to have a track record eventually. All these open mics, none of them showed up. They didn’t even

Show up last week for the Sabbath. Supposed to be their swan song. Supposed to be able to mop the floor with anyone. It’s just plain Bible truth. A plain thus sayeth the Lord. But it’s easier to say stuff like, “Oh, he’s angry. He’s not going to be fair. He’s not going to be balanced.” Go back and watch the first two open mics. SDA showed up then. Some of them just got to go on and on and on and on. But nevertheless, look at Philippians 1, folks.

Chapter one of the epistles is always just packed with heat. Okay,

Notice what Paul says here. So, he starts off. I want you to know, brothers, that what has happened to me has really served to advance the gospel. So that it has become known throughout the whole imperial guard that to all the rest that my imprisonment is for Christ. And most of the brothers having become confident in the Lord by my imprisonment are much more bold to speak the word without fear. So Paul’s grateful for his imprisonment for the gospel because it’s through that that God used it to spread the gospel. Some indeed preach Christ from envy and

Rivalry, but others from goodwill. The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for defense of the gospel. The former proclaimed Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. What then? Only that in every way, whether it pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice. Yes, I will rejoice, for I know that through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, this will turn out for my deliverance. as it is my eager expectation and hope that I will not at all be ashamed,

But that with full courage now as always, Christ will be honored in my body, whether by life or by death. For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose, I cannot tell. I’m hardpressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account. Convinced of this, I know that I will remain and continue with you all for your progress and joy in the faith, so that in me you may have ample cause to

Glory in Christ Jesus because of my coming to you again. So, he’s in prison. He’s grateful for it though because God has used it to essentially take the gospel and he sees God’s hand in it, leading him and guiding him as a tool to spread the gospel. There are people out there, he says though, who are preaching the gospel, but they’re doing it for selfish ambition and selfish gain. He’s not doing that. and that despite his persecutions, despite his afflictions, he is torn between wanting to just die and go be present with the Lord, not resting in the ground, ceasing to

Exist temporarily. He desires to leave his body and be present with the Lord, but for their sakes, the church’s sake, he knows that his time is not yet and there’s still a work to do and that God is going to do through him. So then he ends by saying in this chapter only let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ so that whether I come and see you or am absent I may hear that you’re standing firm in one spirit with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel. United in what? One mind around what? The same God. same gospel.

And not frightened in anything by your opponents. This is a clear sign to them of their destruction, but of your salvation, and that from God. For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ, you should not only believe in him, but also suffer for his sake, engaged in the same conflict that you saw I had, and now hear that I still have. Gospel heretics do not like engaging the gospel because the gospel is the sign of their destruction. But to us who believe that gospel a sign of our salvation. Sign of our salvation. Kelvin not asks, “How do liberal

Evangelical SDAs even still exist?” Ted Wilson at the GC 2022 made it very clear the church does not believe that grace alone reconciles. Yeah, this is a good question. It exists because Adventism is in an identity crisis and it’s all because of present truth which has allowed for all these different splintered groups which are not supposed to exist because they have the theory of everything, the God particle of of theology in the great controversy theme. As Herbert Douglas is has said and we’ve looked at I don’t even know how many times at this point.

It’s the antidote to theological division. shouldn’t even have terms like, well, evangelical Adventist, liberal Adventist, conservative Adventist. No, no, that’s supposed to be Babylon. They’re supposed to be the the the bastion of of unity amongst all that confusion out there of those Sunday apostate Christians. But yeah, good question. Um, I know that like the guys over at Spectrum, for example, they just cope. They just say whatever they need to to try and cope and like make it not seem like it really is. And I admire the people, I’ll be honest,

I admire the people in the movement who think to themselves like, I’m going to I’m going to bring change. I want to change this thing. But folks, at a certain point, it’s just it’s futile. At the end of the day, the SDA church does not provide anything that’s necessary. the foundation upon which they claim to be uniquely special and you know their purpose and everything. We don’t need it. We don’t need it. We don’t need false gospels. We don’t need a bunch of theological fog and confusion from all these sects that all have their own special message and you have to believe

It and everyone else was wrong. There was this great apostasy and just everyone else is lost and yeah and then they resurrect, you know, all these heresies and um they just resurrect a bunch of ancient heresy and and that sort of stuff. So, all right folks, we got our first uh taker here. Felix, you decided to join. Thank you for doing that, sir. You are here. You’re uh your mic is uh hot. Uh well, you muted yourself now, but you can unmute yourself, sir. And uh you’re uh up to uh let us or or or give us your best biblical evidence for the uh health

Message being the gospel. Sounds good. Um, if Oh, if I don’t follow protocol with this debate, you know, you let me know and if it gets heated, just put me back on track. I’m want to be as polite and respectful to you. Yeah, it’s not a debate channel as I can. Okay. So, yeah. No, no, go for it and and kind of get started. And if it goes too long, I’ll just chime in and Yeah, sounds good. Um, no. First of all, it the the gospel um isn’t is definitely of course includes the forgiveness of the penalty of our sins. Um, but so my my p first passage would be Matthew 8

Where Jesus heals um Jesus is healing and then he quote and then Matthew is actually quoting Isaiah 53 saying he was um bruised for iniquities and and he um let me get the actual reference. uh ma Matthew was quoting Isaiah 53 and he shows that healing is also part of the atonement. Um and so our health is also part of the atonement not just salvation from sin but salvation from sickness. Um where Jesus heals I believe it was a centurion. Um and then he he quotes the passage in Isaiah 3. Um if I knew this was today I would have u prepared this a little bit

More ahead of time. Yeah. And then when we get to Isaiah 53, it just it just says he was healed for our iniquities and the chastisement was put upon him. Um yeah, Ma Matthew 4 or sorry, Matthew 8 uh 14-17. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. He took up our infirmities and bore our diseases. Yeah. Yeah. So since he bore our diseases, disease would be part of the atonement. That’s my first argument or claim if that goes with today’s topic. Okay. Paul says the gospel is the power of God to salvation for all that believe it. So are you saying that the Adventist

Health message is a part of that? That’s what Matthew 8 supports. Okay. So Paul was preaching and So Paul was preaching and teaching that if you eat meat, you’re in sin. If you drink tea, you’re in sin. If you have sexual intercourse frequently with your spouse, you are draining your vital forces, your vital energy, and you’ll be held accountable for that before God. Meat blunts your senses that Paul was teaching that as the gospel. Oh, okay. Those specific claims, I guess it’s it’s hardressed you won’t find those very specific claims in Paul’s

Writings. So I I do have to Well, you find the contrary. You find the contrary. That’s the problem. Okay. So that’s kind of where I disagree where it was a contrary to that in Paul’s writings. Yeah. Okay. Yep. So I I I won’t say just outright. I I’m not going to make up a a verse that Paul said that says, “Okay, this is exactly what Paul said.” I’m not going to make that up. But if Paul says something contrary, I would like to see it. Okay, let’s do it. Do you have your Bible? Yes. Okay. Go to 1 Corinthians chapter 7. Got it. 1 Corinthians 7. Yep.

Yes. Okay. And I’m gonna I’m gonna bring it up on the screen here, too. Or what translation are you using? King James. Okay. Do you prefer the King James? Yes. Okay. I will bring up the uh the King James. So Paul here at the beginning, we’re going to start it at verse one, and I’m going to have you read through um read through verse 6. I I’ll bring it up here. Sorry, the King James is breaking on this is different than the ESV, so it doesn’t all fit here on the screen, but I have it brought up here. So start reading for us down through verse six.

Okay. Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. Let the husband render unto the wife do benevolence, and likewise also the wife unto the husband. The wife hath not power over of her own body, but the husband, and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. Defraud ye not one the other except it be with consent for a time that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer and come together

Again that Satan tempt you not for incon incontinency but I speak this by permission and not of commandment. Okay. So what did you just read? What did what did Paul say there? Um that sexual relations is not sinful. Okay. Well, is that all is that all he said? No, no. I just I’m just starting off like let’s verse by verse. Um it’s good. It it’s good. It’s a natural part of creation. Um and verse two. Um so let’s let’s get married to avoid sexual sin. And yes, um a marriage is approved in a new covenant. Um verse three um the husband um should give um pro give himself

Sexually to the wife and the wife to the husband. Um I guess should maybe okay well this is my question. So why do you use the King James? Just curious. Um, it’s one of those you’re kind of missing some of the key things here. And I think it’s just due to not understanding the the writing style because that’s not all he says in verse three. Right. So, let’s switch to a more modern translation. Sure. Such as the NASB or the ESV, which is going to be a more word for word literal translation, but it’s going to do so in modern English to convey what is being

Said. So notice the heading is not inspired but it’s giving you insight into what this paricopy is getting into principles for marriage. Okay. Yeah. So they wrote to him the church at Corinth and this is Paul’s correspondence back to them. That’s what we’re reading. So he says now concerning the matters which means the church had questions in this area concerning what you wrote. Well what did they write? It’s good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman. Now, we don’t have the backstory on this to know exactly what was going on here, but

If you study uh heresies of the early church, you had a number of groups going around saying that it was wrong to be married. There were a variety of splinters of of people saying these things. So, it makes sense that they would have been consulting with the apostle on is this the case? He says, “But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.” The husband should give. So it said do benevolence in the King James husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights and likewise the wife to

Her husband or the wife. And why is this? because the wife doesn’t have authority over her own body and the husband does. Likewise, the husband doesn’t have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by the agreement for a limited time that you may devote yourselves to prayer, but then come together again so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. Now, as a session, not a command, I say this, but it’s inscripturated for us that Paul says because of the temptation of sexual immorality in response to the

Question of it’s good for a man to not essentially be married. He says because of the temptation of sexual immorality. This is a natural desire of the of of the design. Each man is to have his own wife, each woman her own husband, and they both have rights over one another’s body. Which means if one spouse needs a sexual gratification of whatever that spouse’s specific needs are, are you married? If if if Well, right before that, if if you’re married, what? Well, no, I’m asking. Are you married? Oh, yes. Yes. Okay. So, if your spouse has a certain

Need that you guys have discussed, you know, every every couple is different. You are to give your spouse because you’re the only one that can give that to them what God has designed for you to give to them. Nothing in here about, well, it should be limited because it’s going to drain your vital force and God’s going to hold you accountable for uh having too much intercourse. No, God’s going to hold you accountable for not having enough intercourse, for not for depriving one another. That’s only to be done for a season when it’s agreed upon to fast and then you’re to come

Back together again after devoting yourselves to prayer so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. But furthermore, Brend, where in here despite contradicting Ellen White, who again said that you’re going to be held accountable for having too much intercourse with your spouse because you’re draining your your life force. Where in here does Paul say that this is the gospel? I’m still failing to to to see that because we can go back to Matthew, Matthew 8 if you want, but I’m still failing to see where in there you’re getting that

The gospel is the power of God to salvation for all that believe it. So if the health message is a part of the gospel, then that means a person has to believe the health message to be saved. Okay? So where is that in the Bible? or we can continue going down this road and showing well let’s just do that. Can you go to Romans 14? Sure. Okay. Um can I give a brief verse from 1 Corinthians 7 right before we move on from 1 Corinthians 7? Sure. What verse? Staying on topic. Um verse 29. Okay. um this passage I I’ve heard I’ve heard advent Adventists teaching not to

Discredit Paul but to say that Paul’s not giving this as a command but as general um principles for living in the context of that time and verse 29 kind of shows us like okay this is kind of how Paul really wants it overall um this is what I mean brothers the appointed time has grown very short from now on let those who have wives live as though they had None. So what what do you what do you get from that verse? Well, okay, you need to start back at verse 25. See, this this is the issue. You got to flow your way through the text. So Paul has already said this back

Here. And what you’re essentially reiterating is what he says back in verse six. Now, as a concession, not a command, I say this, but that doesn’t change the fact of what he said being in scripturated here. Furthermore, if you keep reading, you need to start at verse 25. Okay? because there’s a break in the text. And notice what he says. This is about the unmarried and the widowed. Now, concerning the betrothed, I have no command from the Lord, but I give my judgment as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy. I think that in view of the present distress, it is good for a

Person to remain as he is. That’s the person who isn’t. So, if you’re widowed, you’re to remain that way. because of the current present persecutions at that time. Yeah, it would have been very difficult to remarry, even to marry and be dealing with all the stuff that’s going to come with that, the cultural persecution of being a Christian and just there’s so many logistical things. But this advice here is if you can, which is the same thing he was saying above, if you can remain celibate and single, it’s going to bring you more persecution upon you. So watch now

Concerning the betrothed. I have no command from the Lord, but I give my judgment as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy. I think that in view of the present distress is uh because of the present distress, it is good for a person to remain as he is. Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a wife? Do not seek a wife. But if you do marry, you have not sinned. And if a betrod woman marries, she has not sinned. Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles. And I would spare you not. That’s the worldly troubles he’s talking about. It’s going

To bring on more difficulties in this current age of persecution. This is what I mean, brothers. The appointed time has grown very short. From now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none, and those who mourn as though they were not mourning, and those who rejoice as though they were not rejoicing, and those who buy as though they had no goods. For those who deal with the world as though they had no dealings with it, for the present form of this world is passing away. my friend. He’s talking here about not essentially being tied to

The things of the world that are going to distract you amongst the coming persecutions. He’s not saying here if you’re married, don’t have sex. That’s not what he’s saying here. He’s going on and transitioning after he’s talked about giving advice regarding a question that was asked about marriages. He gives his advice. He then says, “It’s not a command. However, it is inscripturated for us, which matters.” And then he then goes on to explain the coming the current distress and whatnot that they’re under and gives advice for widows and those who are uh betrothed

And says if you’re not if if your spouse died and you’re a widow or you don’t have a spouse currently just like he said previously I would my advice to you would be do not bring that undue stress upon yourself because it’s going to tie you to other worldly things. You now have a spouse to worry about. Is your spouse going to get murdered? if you end up having children during the current distress. What if you’re taken away from your child etc. So yeah, in that sense there is localal uh what you would call like a a local effect upon the words that he’s saying. But this doesn’t say

To not be having intercourse with your spouse and that in doing so you drain your vital force leading to an earlier death and then God’s going to hold you accountable for that. Yeah. I don’t see a vital force thing in this passage or the um you know that God’s going to judge you for it. Right. So now I would agree with you there. Well, now let’s look at Romans 14. Okay. Sure. Can you read? It’s on screen for you. Can you read verses 1 through 4? Yeah. As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he

May eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats. For God has welcomed him. For who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls, and he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. Do you think that jives with the health message around eating? Uh well, only vegetables. Yeah, the whole food plant-based diet. Um

Claim four, right? Consumption of any meat, pickles, condiments, tea, tobacco, and coffee is sinful. I guess that’s what Ellen said. She said meat clouds the mind. Claim I have that slide on my on my phone right now. The the the five claims. I’m looking at claim four. I can bring it back up for you if you want. No, no, have it right here. Have it right here. or if you want to do it for the audience. But yeah, don’t judge the weaker brother. Well, well, my friend, the weaker brother is the one who eats only vegetables. The the the brother in the faith who is

Mature and has understanding. This is essentially being informed by Jesus’s own words in Matthew 7, which the SDA church likes to try and say, “No, no, no. That’s just talking about washing hands.” Yeah. except for the fact that Jesus says that nothing that goes into a man can defile him because it goes into his stomach and is expelled. Meaning that would include food because he explains that true defilement comes from a person’s heart. It’s not by something that they eat. But if a person that this is why then Paul goes into explaining for example if a person had a conviction

Over meat sacrificed to idols well don’t go against your conscience. But Paul knew that the meat sacrificed to idols was just like any other meat. His conscience wasn’t convicted over it. So Paul would eat it, but if it was going to cause somebody else to stumble, he would abstain because again, he’s showing that he’s the mature believer. So how does this text jive with the fact that meat beclouds your intellect, making you immoral, which makes you unfit for immortality, and anything that beclouds the the blood or defiles the blood is a sin. Wow.

Um, this text doesn’t really j drive with that. Um, okay. What about 1 Corinthians 8? Can you go to 1 Corinthians 8? Sure. Okay. So, this is where I was just talking about food offered to idols. Starting in verse one, he says, “Now concerning food offered to idols,” it’s the next chapter from where we just were. So after he’s done talking about married couples, etc., another thing that would have been common during that day, meat sacrificed to idols, right? We know that all of us possess knowledge. This knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. If anyone imagines that

He knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. But if anyone loves God, he is known by God. Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that an idol has no real existence, and there is no God but one. For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, both lowercase, yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. However, so why is he saying this when he’s

Talking about food sacrificed to idols? Not all possess this knowledge. So not all people understand the true God. But some through former association with idols eat food as really offered to an idol and their conscience being weak is defiled. So it’s not the food that does it. It’s their conscience. It’s them going against their conscience because they don’t know that there’s actually nothing wrong with eating that meat. But because their their their conscience is is pricricked and they go against it, that’s how they become defiled. Food will not commend us

To God. We are no worse off if we do not eat and no better off if we do. But take care that this right of yours, this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block for the weak. For if anyone else or or for if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will he not be encouraged if his conscience is weak to eat food offered to idols? And so by your knowledge, this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. Thus sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience, when it is weak, you sin against Christ.

Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble. So Paul ate meat but not in the presence of a believer who it would cause to stumble. Whether it was the meat was sacrificed to idols or the person had a conviction. It’s just like uh if somebody has a conviction about alcohol or I know that a brother has overcome alcohol addiction. When I have him and his wife over for dinner with me and my wife, we’re not going to drink wine. We’re not going to drink alcohol because that is going to be a stumbling block for that

Brother. But that doesn’t make the alcohol in and of itself sinful. Overindulgence of it is sinful. Causing somebody else to stumble is sinful, etc. But the thing itself is not sinful. Notice verse 8. Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat and no better off if we do. How does that jive with what Ellen White said? Consumption of any meat, pickles, condiments, tea, tobacco, and coffee is sinful because they pollute the blood which goes against the law that is written on every fiber of our beings and is sinful. Help me out here.

Yeah. And I’m looking at verse eight and it it definitely it it really contradicts claim number four um where it says, “But food does not bring us near to God. We are no worse if we do not eat and no better if we do. Sounds pretty bad. Um, okay. Go to Matthew 14. Matthew 14.

Appreciate you stepping up, bud, and, you know, being being honest and sincere. I think you’re the same gentleman that was at one of our previous open mics. And so I commend you for that, my friend. Um, no hatred here. Just again genuinely wanting to get your uh your thoughts on this. Hopefully it piques your interest, etc. But notice Jesus feeding the 5000. Okay. Yes. Can you read Matthew 14 13? It says John the Baptist. Oh, there it is. Okay. Wrong wrong section. Yeah. Yeah. verses 13 through uh 21 out loud. Uh no, bro. All of us, all of us are

Able All of us are able to uh be able to read your thoughts. Yes, out loud. Now, when Jesus heard this, he withdrew from there in a boat to a desolate place by himself. But when the crowds heard it, they followed him on foot from the towns. When he went ashore, he saw a great crowd, and he had compassion on them and healed their sick. Now when it was evening, the disciples came to him and said, “This is a desolate place, and the day is now over. Send the crowds away to go into the villages and buy food for themselves.” But Jesus said, “They need to go away. You give them

Something to eat.” They said to him, “We have only five loaves here and two fish.” And he said, “Bring them here to me.” Then he ordered the crowds to sit down on the grass, taking the five loaves and the two fish. He looked up to heaven and said, “A blessing.” Then he broke the loaves and gave them to the disciples. And the disciples gave them to the crowds. And they all ate and were satisfied. And they took up the 12 baskets full of the broken pieces left over. And those who ate were about 5,000 men beside besides women and children. Okay. Eating fish.

So Jesus does a miracle where he feeds women, children, and menat. He’s all knowing. And he has supposedly revealed through Ellen White that eating meat defiles the blood and beclouds the intellect, blunting the senses from being able to understand truth. So Jesus did a miracle that defiled the blood of children. The same Jesus who taught that one who teaches a child to stumble, it’d be better that a millstone’s hung around their neck and they’re thrown into the ocean. Yet he did a miracle that defiled the blood of thousands of people. And then himself in Luke after the

Resurrection, even in the glorified state, he didn’t return to an edenic diet. He ate fish. So can you explain that to us? Jesus eats meat. He also parttook of the Passover lamb as the antityypical Passover lamb. He actually parttook of the Passover service which you had to consume the lamb. So explain to us how this jives not only with um Jesus performing a miracle that caused others to sin which means he sinned. He ate meat which would have defiled his own blood and caused him to sin and to have defiled blood. But furthermore this isn’t the gospel.

Nothing we’re talking about here, my friend, is the gospel. I understand this is in the gospels. But this isn’t the power of God to salvation. Right? So, can you explain that for us? I That’s why there’s the rub here. Jesus is feeding people fish. So if Ellen White says eating fish is sinful because it defiles the blood and takes the takes away the life of God and Jesus is feeding the fish. I can see your I I see the logic. It it means um that Jesus is uh leading people astray. Yeah. Leading people say it what it is. It’s it’s Jesus is a sinner. That’s what’s

Being said. That’s the logical conclusion. You see, you see the the problem now cuz I’m not dogging on you. Yeah. Yeah. She said anything that defiles the blood is a sin. Do you want me to bring that quote back up? Yeah. Yeah. that that okay let’s go through these again so you can you can see the logic here because I have to go back in a way that um I can’t just bring I hear the adventist apologetic um saying oh it was before the resurrection but it’s no after do that you know like um it doesn’t matter he’s all knowing that’s irrelevant that means he defiled

The blood of people. It so it was only it only defiled the blood prior to the resurrection. Then post the resurrection meat all of a sudden now it it defiles the blood. But pre-resurrection, it doesn’t defile the blood. Come on, man. Think think. No. And not just that, but Jesus ate meat post-resurrection. He ate broiled fish. Yeah, that’s right before the ascension. He he in the room in in Luke, he eats broiled fish. Um so first we have this one here. This is councils on diet and foods. Meat should not be placed before our children. It in it its influence is to

Excite and strengthen the lower passions and has a tendency to deaden the moral powers. Grains and fruits prepared free from Greece as in a natural condition as possible should be the food of the tables of all who claim to be preparing for translation to heaven. So to be translated to heaven, you have to be in a moral state, a purely a pure moral state to be fit for translation. Well, eating meat, she says, beclouds the intellect, defiles the blood, and anything that does so makes somebody immoral because it violates the law of God. This again, this is where she said

Again and again, I’ve been shown God’s trying to lead people back to the Edenic diet. Meat eating will eventually be done away. Flesh will cease to form a part of their diet. Tea and coffee drinking is a sin, an injurous indulgence, which injures the soul. Meat eating here it is deranges the system, beclouds the intellect and blunts the moral sensibilities. Does she say clean meat? Unclean meat? No, she says meat. And that all meat will cease to be a part of their diet. Not just unclean meat. All meat. Such a diet contaminates the blood and stimulates the lower passions. It

Prevents vigor of thought and infeevils the perceptions so that God and the truth are not understood. God has written his law upon every nerve and muscle, every fiber and function of the human body. The indulgence of unnatural appetite, whether for tea, coffee, tobacco, or liquor, is in temperance and is at war with the laws of life and health. By using these forbidden articles, not in moderation, using them. A condition of things is created in the system which the creator never designed. This indulgence in any of the members of the human family is

Sin. The dot dot dot is on their part as well. By the way, folks, the eating a food that does not make good blood. What’d she say about meat? Defiles the blood. Violation of the law of God. So that’s where she’s saying it’s a sin. Like there’s no, oh, eating meat is a sin. There’s not an exact quote, but it’s violation of the law of God. violating law of God is a sin. So correct. And so anything that doesn’t any food that does not make good blood, which she says meat defiles the blood is working against the laws of our physical organism and is a violation of the law

Of God. So Jesus violated the law of God by eating the Passover lamb, eating fish, and did a miracle where he fed a bunch of people a bunch of food, including children that defiled their blood. Wow. I guess uh Jesus wasn’t a good uh follower of Ellen White. My man, I appreciate your honesty. I hope you understand kind of the the logic here and and what I’m saying. I’m not trying to pick on SDAs, but it’s not the gospel. That’s not the gospel. That’s not the good news. The good news is not you believe uh in a vegetarian and vegan lifestyle and you accept uh

The all this extra stuff on a present truth message uh that God gave a woman toward uh the n the end of the 19th or the mid middle of the 19th century. That’s not the gospel. It doesn’t mean the Bible doesn’t speak about health. It doesn’t mean the Bible doesn’t say that yeah we should take care of our bodies. We shouldn’t just I’m not saying gluttony is not a sin, etc. But that’s not the gospel. The gospel is good news. That’s what it means. It means good news. And Paul says, “Whoever believes that gospel, whatever it is, that person finds salvation.”

So if the SDA church is saying that the health message is a part of the gospel, that is what they’re saying. They’re saying it’s a part of salvation. That or they have to define gospel differently than the scriptures do because that’s how the New Testament defines the gospel. It’s the message that is the power of God to salvation. It’s not all of theology. It’s not the entire Bible. You have to believe and understand what the actual good news is. Yeah. It’s not just um it’s not just saying, “Okay, the gospel produces life. When we believe in the gospel, we live a

Holy life.” It it’s But what is the gospel? the health message, combining the health message is as part of the gospel is taking that much further than just, oh, um, those who believe the gospel live a holy life. Um, well, it’s altering the gospel. That’s the problem. So, the issue that was happening in Galatia, the Judaizers in Galatia, that Paul says, “I’m astonished.” Let’s let’s again, let’s bring this back up here because we need to understand what’s actually going on here. When Paul says,”I am astonished that you’re so quickly deserting him who

Called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel.” Not that there is another, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. Do you know what these Judaizers were saying? That you have to be circumcised. Correct. But what else were they saying? We believe in Jesus. We believe he died. We believe he died on the cross. We believe correct. We believe all that. We believe all that. Yeah. And you’ve distorted the gospel. You’ve added to it. You can’t add or take away. And a lot of times we get SDAs who think, well, the SDA church

Affirms that, right? But they’ve added to the gospel. They’ve added. You either add or take away. You had heretics, for example, early on that said, h the resurrection didn’t really happen. Okay? They’re taking away from the gospel. But the SDA church is trying to accept all of those things, but then adding a truckload of stuff on top of that, calling all of that the gospel. And when they do that, they’re un whether knowingly or unknowingly. They’re saying you have to believe all of this stuff because it’s the power of God to salvation. This isn’t what the

Apostles were teaching is the power of God to salvation. It’s not vegetarianism, abstinence from your spouse, which is going to drain your vital force and potentially lead to an immoral life and blunt your moral sensibilities, etc. It’s just not the case. And vital force was debunked in in the 19th century, which is why a lot of the well, pretty much all of the other health reformers of that day abandoned it because they weren’t claiming, well, this is coming from God. That’s the predicament Ellen is in. She claimed it’s coming from God. So God supposedly put his stamp of

Approval on a debunked scientific theory. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like uh her she’s mingling her view of science which is like two centuries old with spiritual teachings and then trying to mesh that into the gospel. Well, not just spiritual teaching. She’s saying God gave this information. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And that’s the that’s the rub. If the SDA church didn’t have that position, then they wouldn’t have to get saddled with all this. But this is the logical conclusion of the position. If you’ve got somebody who is divinely inspired, this is coming directly from God. And

She says the light given from God on health reform, if rejected, you reject God. There’s really no way to salvage that. That’s why a lot of us ended up former Adventists because we wanted to defend these things. But at a certain point, At a certain point, we couldn’t anymore. We we said, “I can’t I don’t want to have to do the gymnastics. I just want to believe what it what it’s teaching.” And there’s a reason why this stuff is novel. There’s a reason why this stuff is novel to the 19th century. It’s not coming from God. And so, we all have to make a choice. We all have to make a

Decision. Are you really committed to the truth? Are you willing to go wherever the truth leads? Or is your commitment to a system? My commitment is to the truth wherever that leads, not to system or or comfortability. And every person has to come to a point in their life where they decide, you know, I don’t want to be a part of something that’s just clearly false. I don’t want to have to try and twist very clear scripture while acting like I’ve got all this apocalyptic scripture just, oh, it’s just plain as day and clear as day. I didn’t want to do that anymore. So,

Hopefully this was thoughtprovoking for you. if there’s anything else you would like to try and add to it. It sounds, my friend, like you you’ve kind of already admitted the the the thesis that this isn’t the gospel. It’s not part of the gospel. So, my my hope for you would be that um you know, in in privacy internally in your in your own heart, um you seek to square this with the truth and find true freedom in in what comes with actually believing the gospel. Um, and realizing that, um, I I get it. I I loved the SDA world. I I don’t know your involvement in that. I don’t know how

Plugged in you are, you know, any of that sort of stuff. I was plugged in. I was involved. I I went to summer camps, schools, doctors, grocery stores. Like, all my friends were SDA. I had friends that weren’t SDA, but I loved it. I loved it. But we have to come to a crossroad where we have to make a decision. Paul says false gospels are cursed by God. Do you want to remain a part of an organization that’s under God’s curse actively? As plain as day. It’s as plain as day from the day. Under God’s curse. Read Galatians 1 tonight, my friend. Yeah. I always say I view it as a a

Denomination among many, you know, but see but but see the problem with that, my friend, and I understand wanting to think that. And again, it sounds like you’re already on the evolutionary journey of what happens when you start to piece these things together. You’re going down the road now of Adventism light. Well, it’s just another denomination, my friend, that f that is found foundationally antithetical to Seventh Adventism. Now, we’re the true movement. Adventism has shifted. This is why I say the movement’s an identity crisis because early on, they knew who they were.

That it was a flag down. There was boldness. There was you’re going to get the wrath of God poured out on you. We are the remnant. This is God’s last day people. He has raised us up to restore um apostolic Christianity and if you don’t get with us, you’re going to experience the wrath of God. It was very clear we are the one body. But over time, it’s shifted now to where there are pockets who think, well, we’re just one denomination amongst many. No, my my friend, your church is has a unique mission, a special message. It doesn’t share the mission of other

Denominations. Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutheran, Moravians, all share in the same mission and message. Their differences are tertiary. They’re things that we were just in Romans 14. Paul goes on to say that we shouldn’t quarrel over disputable matters. Meaning that there are doctrines that are disputable. Those doctrines should not divide. And like we looked at in Philippians 1, the church is to be united on who God is and what the gospel is. It’s not to say there aren’t other doctrines that are vitally important. But for example, Baptists and

Presbyterians differ on their form of church governance. They don’t have a different mission. They don’t have a different God. They don’t have a different gospel. They have a difference in understanding due to things like Acts 15 and understanding and and working with things in the text that we’re trying to glean as much information as we possibly can and everything’s not just explicitly stated verbatim. But their mission is the exact same. They worship the same God. They’re taking the same gospel. The SDA church is not doing that. They have their own

Message, their own unique mission. The Christian church does not have multiple missions. So no, it’s not just one denomination amongst many. I know a lot of SDAs view it that way, but from an organizational standpoint, that is not at all the case. It can’t be the case. And actively here we in in in Galatians 1. Different gospel. There isn’t another one. There’s those who trouble you trying to distort the gospel of Christ. If we or an angel from heaven or three angels should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you which he says came from Jesus Christ, let him be

Accursed. And then he says it again as we have said before. Now I say again, if anyone’s preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. My friend, this organization is actively under the curse of God. Mormonism is under the curse of God. Jehovah’s Witnesses are under the curse of God. Christian Science is under the curse of God. Unity is under the curse of God. Islam’s under the curse of God. Muslims, Islam, Unity, Bahigh, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christian Science, Seventh Day Adventism. These groups are under the curse of God.

That’s not what the It’s not what the apostles were teaching as the gospel. as the gospel. It’s okay if you know it’d be one thing, man, if the SDA church was just like, “Well, we recommend a a vegan lifestyle and here’s the studies we’ve done that that supposedly support this, etc.” Well, perfect. If you want to just, you know, believe that and say that and have that claim, sure. But when you start attaching to it, this is light from heaven. You’re going to be unfit for immortality. God wants you to return to the Edenic diet, except Jesus post-resurrection

Eats fish. Yeah. Yeah. So hopefully you’ll consider that my friend. Anything you want to to add before we uh we we kind of move along here? Yeah. Um quoting her directly, it because most of the conversations I have, it seems like the a lot of the modern day Adventist um leaders um they don’t quote her directly. So it kind of like all that the rad the more radical quotes are kind of like we don’t really hear them. Yeah. They’re ignored. They kind of dumb it down if you know what I mean. So for sure. For sure. It’s it’s it’s hard to see that when

You’re in the church, but like we just had a kid so like we don’t go as much. So now now it’s easier to see like on the outside. It’s kind of feels like you’re an outsider just just because of circumstance. So yeah. Right. Well, yeah. And that’s exactly the the case. And I talk about this a lot. You know, I grew up in a household that loved all the flowery quotes. Of course, they’re out there. You know, a lot of times SDAs will take umbrage with me thinking, “Well, you you went radically the other direction. You think every single thing SDAs believe is

Wrong.” That’s not true. There’s topics that I’ll never rag on SDAs for, ever. The topics that I cover on here are foundational things. You’re calling God a liar. You’re making God a sinner. This is a contradiction of scripture. um this doctrine is foundational and you guys are out of line with it. I don’t rag on the SDA church for things that are disputable matters unless the position that they hold on said disputable matter creates a biblical contradiction or something along those lines. But I’m not in this camp where everything the SDA church says is wrong. I don’t do that

Same thing with Ellen White’s writings. I’ve never said all two million words are just poison. No deception out there. No person that was deceived, whether it’s Joseph Smith, Ellen White, Mary Baker, Eddie, they weren’t 100% just toxic. That’s not how the devil works. The devil always works in some sort of truths that hook people. Whether that’s in the New Age movement, in Hinduism, you can look at mus Islam, some of these religions that people think are the craziest religions in the world. How could any person believe that? Uh because it’s literally not all just the

The the stuff you more than likely are hearing that make you think, well, that’s crazy. No, you’re slowly given a drip feed. The SDA church loves to hook people with the the health message. And if people are unsuspecting and they don’t know how to read the Bible, which is sadly a lot of the American West, third world countries where people have never actually been exposed to exogetical preaching and teaching and haven’t been discipled, etc. You’re going to be open prey for these movements. The Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons can look just as believable as

SDAs. I don’t know if you’ve ever had them come to your door before or engaged with them, but if you don’t know your Bible and their set of proof texts and scripts, they can make their position seem tenable. So, I know that the SDA church loves the flowery quotes, and we point out on this platform all the time. We will continue to do so the way that she works into the pulpit because you get the claims that, well, my pastor never cites Ellen White. I am telling you, I’m telling you, I will take this to my grave. Every SDA pastor, every SDA pastor has a

Great controversy world view. I don’t care where they’re at on the spectrum. I don’t care if they’re Tim Jennings or Ted Wilson. I don’t care if it’s Isaac Latuni or Tim Gillespie. your whole big spectrum here. They both have a great controversy worldview, which means the great controversy is going to govern the teaching, which means oftent times you don’t get verbatim quotes. You’re getting the idea that is portrayed and put forth, which is oftentimes not coming from scripture. The big one I always use because this is like the fountain head is Jesus

Incarnated to silence the accusations of Satan. He has to vindicate his character. Scripture never says this anywhere. Scripture never says Jesus incarnated to silence the accusations of Satan that he started making prior to the creation of the earth after Jesus was exalted to be made equal with the father. It’s not in the Bible yet. Adventist pastors will say this sort of stuff all the time in the vindication of God’s character and these sorts of things. That’s not coming from the Bible. That’s coming from Ellen White. So, I’m glad that your your absence in that regard.

Hopefully, it is the Lord calling you to to himself. Um, that he’s pricking your conscience. That is a good thing. I’m I’m glad that you’re able to see those things. Um, thank you for being brave enough to to step up and discuss and be honest because I commend and respect people, folks like this gentleman who is not loud and boisterous and arrogant. I get that way sometimes, boisterous and loud, etc. contextually speaking because there’s a time and a place for those types of things, folks. I’m not like that 247 with every individual that I talk to.

Paul got like that too, though. I would Well, I would combust. If I was like that 247, I would combust. But when we’re talking about pastors here, man, blasting this out, and it’s deceiving people coming out of that, having friends, family caught up in this who I want to come and know the truth. Yeah, I get passionate about that. I get I get worked up about that. But thank you for being bold enough to come on here. Thank you for being uh a good sport and for being honest. Um because that is the the first step in being able to uh what I would say is is come to know the truth.

So thank you again. You’re always welcome to uh to come back. We’re going to move along here. But I really enjoyed the uh the discussion with you, my friend. And I will be praying for you by name. I will add you to our answering adventism list. Um, and I will pray that the uh the Lord continues the work on our friend here. Folks, let’s give our friend a round of applause. Very few Adventists folks are willing to step up to the plate because they know that these things cannot be defended. They know that that things can’t be defended. And when you’re honest like

This gentleman was you’ll be able to see that. It’s not because Miles is saying it. I’m not special. I’m just a a messenger and not the way Ellen said, the Lord’s messenger. God speaking through me. No, I’m praying to be used by God. But it’s for purposes of this. People like this who are genuine seekers, not the person that has their flag just slammed down into the ground and I don’t care what you say, it’s just going to further my belief. Okay, we’re not going to waste our time. I’m going to dust my my shoes off. All right, have at it. But for people like this gentleman who

Are willing to step up, be honest, look at the Bible, examine these sorts of things, and just can clearly see the the plain laying out of scripture. Doesn’t have to do these mental gymnastics of, oh, well, that was pre-resurrection, and oh, folks, it it didn’t defile people’s blood prior or post-resurrection, and then it didn’t defile, you know, pre-resurrection. just these sorts of gymnastics. Oh, that was that was contextual. The tea back then was was made people intoxicated. Just you’re coping. You’re coping, my friend. So, Adventists, it’s time to

Give these these things up. It’s time to really think. Do you want to be a part of an organization that is proitizing a message that’s damning people? I understand you may have your own personal views and opinions. I I know the spectrum. You got I’m a gospel Adventist. I’m I get all that. But why then, if you believe the gospel and you know the gospel, are you associating and affiliating and supporting an organization that’s proitizing a cursed gospel? We are to avoid all appearances of evil. folks, accursed by Paul in Galatians. The Greek word there is anathema.

It is the most scathing way that Paul can say damned. This is plain scripture. Not apocalyptic literature, not metaphors, not No, this is pastoral epistles, episttolary literature, plain didactic passages. It’s time to get out of that. It’s time to to recognize I’m at a crossroad. I got to make a choice. Do I believe the Lord? Do I truly love Jesus? Because Jesus says you’ll follow him into all truth. all truth despite the cost. Are you willing to do that?

Alpha Matter here says, “Miles, mention how Ellen White had a health message in 1863, but didn’t really become full vegetarian till 1890s. In between those years, she was harsh on those who hadn’t been following the 1863 vision. Yes, we have an article on this on the website. Let me uh bring that up for us here. The article is in the vein of did Ellen White follow her own advice on health reform. Get it going here. Did Ellen White follow her own health demands. So she says, or it says rather, did Ellen White follow her own health demands? No. She

Oftentimes contradicted herself in the same breath like when she claimed flesh of dead animals is never found on her table. Yet in the next sentence, she says that she regularly eats fish. This is where Adventists will typically say, “See, that shows that she’s talking about unclean animals.” Yeah. Okay. She claimed to not preach one thing and practice another. Yet, her life is documented and marked with hypocrisy when it comes to her own diet compared to the long list of food abstinence and bondage she prescribed on everyone else. So much so that if one didn’t yield to

It, they wouldn’t be fit for translation to heaven supposedly. Over the course of her whole life, she consumed oysters, venison, fish, and duck to name only a few. She claimed that flesh foods must be completely ridded from the diet in order to be saved, and that those who awaiting the return of Christ would be vegetarians. Yet, she didn’t follow this council from heaven herself. This is why SDAs will oftentimes say, “No, no, no. It’s just about it’s a progressive thing. it it’s it’s as long as you’re making progress toward, you know, eliminating these things. You can’t just

Do it all cold turkey. Um, and so they’ll try to point to these things. Well, she was just following her own advice. She was just gradually over time, you know, getting to a point where um she she wasn’t eating meat anymore. No, you got to understand the system as well, folks. The Bible does not condemn the consumption of meat. Paul warned in 1 Timothy 4 1-4. could have looked at that as well that people would come along teaching doctrines of demons. One of which is the forbidding of cons in the consumption of certain foods. Paul also explains in Romans 14 like we

Looked at um the one who eats only vegetables and the other doesn’t God accepts both people. This is also in line with what God told Noah after the flood. The same Paul very plainly says that food does not bring us near to God and we are no worse if we do not eat and no better if we do. We could have looked at that as well. 1 Corinthians 10:25-9. Eat whatever is sold in the meat market. What is sold in the meat market, folks? Meat. Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience. For the earth is the Lord’s and the

Fullness thereof. If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you

Without raising any question on the ground of conscience. But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it for the sake of the one who informed you and for the sake of conscience. I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else’s conscience? Close quote. Or thus the reading of God’s holy word rather. Eating meat is a sin. Defiles the blood clouds the mind. Need to be returning to the edenic diet if you want to be prepared. No, it’s not what Paul taught. Furthermore, Jesus himself said in Mark

7 where we get the the Cororban rule, the Jewish the tradition of the elders these Pharisees were claiming came from God that didn’t come from God. Exactly like what’s going on here. All this stuff from Ellen White supposedly came from God. No, it didn’t. It’s no different than the tradition of the elders that the Pharisees were trying to bind Jesus to. And he said, “That’s not God’s law. These are your man-made traditions that you’ve added on here claiming it’s it’s it’s from God when it’s not. He very plainly says in Matthew 7, all foods are clean. And then they argue, well, that’s

In parenthesis and is that really there or was that a scribal addition? Well, it doesn’t matter because contextually speaking, the whole point is he says anything that goes into a person cannot defile them because it goes into the stomach and it’s expelled. That would include not washing your hands and germs that are on the food and then go into the body. That would include food that is supposedly defiled. So in conjunction with the entire New Testament witness, abstaining from certain foods doesn’t bring you closer to God. Being a vegetarian does not bring you

Any closer to God. The person who eats only vegetables is weak in the faith and so on. So yes, she was a hypocrite alpha matter and didn’t follow her own advice even though she was claiming to be shown for example. I mean she says she tells parents how high do you think your prayers go? You put meat, butter, and eggs on the table of your children. This is while she’s still eating meat before she’s supposedly, you know, sanctified to the point where she eventually gave it up. But God showed me that your prayers don’t go any higher than the ceiling

Because you put meat, butter, and eggs on your kids’ table. Okay. See if we have any other questions here. If not, we will shut things down.

Let’s see. Anything else? Folks, if you haven’t learned, and I’ve mentioned this so many times, I hate dead air. I hate it. Hate it. I uh I tend to plan for these things pretty uh uh exhaustively, but these open mics, we kind of have to uh you know, go with the the cards that are dealt. And I’m going to continue doing these things because you can’t even find SDAs to really engage. It’s not like the Mormon church, you know, where if you’re in Utah, you can go down to the the temple, which is in the middle of town with all these sidewalks around it. You can stand out

There on public ground and know that they’re going to be coming on certain days for certain events, etc., and engage with them. Can’t do that with the SDAs, folks. We get lots of comments on that, too, on our on our street evangelism videos. Please, please, more of these, folks. I would do that every week. If I knew somewhere to go where SDAs were publicly willing to just engage and dialogue, I’d go there every week. That’s how engaged I’d be. I would be doing that more than any other pieces of content. But doing that, it’s like we have the only place we we know is

College campuses. And even then, we have to be careful because they can kick us off because it’s private, which would be rather shameful to kick off people from just simply trying to have gospel conversations. and implore people to to look and read the scriptures. But nevertheless, um I would be engaged in in stuff like this constantly if I could, but this is the closest thing we have uh right now in terms of being to being able to reach as many people as possible in terms of actual facetoface interaction. So, we’re going to keep doing these and uh hopefully more and

More SDAs will come across them, engage um and we can get the uh the ball rolling on that. Moto sapion asks, “Hello, Miles. Can you expand on what you mean by under the curse of God? Maybe ex examples would help me understand what you mean. Thanks.” Um yeah, I mean what Paul meant when he used the term accursed, which means anathema, damned. So, a person that believes a false gospel or rather a person that’s preaching a false gospel, he says these Judaizers that are claiming to proclaim the gospel are actually distorting the gospel of Christ. And the people proclaiming it

Are damned. They’re not saved. That’s what I mean by that. So, the SDA organization proitizes a false gospel, which means it’s it’s a damning message. It will not save you. It cannot save you. Only the true gospel saves. And Paul says the same thing. 2 Corinthians 11 1-4. He says, “I’m afraid.” This is his second letter back to the church at Corenth. Now, so there’s been more correspondence after the first letter. He gets an update. He then writes a followup to them and he tells them, “I am afraid that if some person comes and preaches a different Jesus, a different spirit, and

A different gospel, you’re going to believe it and be led astray and deceived like Eve was, not Adam and Eve.” Despite Ellen White saying both of them were deceived, but that’s what I mean by under the curse of God. They’re anatized. They’re damned because they don’t actually believe the true gospel which is the only thing that can actually the the only gospel. The true gospel is the only one that can actually save. So that is what I mean. I don’t mean that they are completely reprobated in that there’s no hope for them at all. If that were the case, we wouldn’t

Bother doing this. The fact that there is hope is why we are doing this. So hopefully that clarifies that. But that is what I mean. I’m using the term anathema for cursed which is the word Paul used. And you can look that up and see the usage of it um pretty consistently across the the the scriptures. It it means damned. So, hope that helps. Let’s see here. What else? Adrien Muer says, “Miles, if it is reasonable for Christ to place more weight on the law in his day, i.e. Matthew 5. Is it not also reasonable to place greater weight on the law today in

Preparation for his second coming? I don’t understand what your question is. You how’s about you join Adrian and we can uh discuss this further. I don’t know if this necessarily has anything to do specifically though with uh the health message. We’re going to do a change my mind on the law eventually. But Adrian, I don’t know if you’re new. Maybe you are. If you are, welcome. I believe you’re an SDA just based on the comment here. Maybe not. But I would encourage you before making assumptions, look and read up on what this platform affirms. Okay?

Your pioneers, if you’re an Adventist, stole from my spiritual ancestors on this subject. Okay? Your organization systematized its theology utilizing three individuals and the backgrounds they came out of. One of those being Joseph Bates who was a Presbyterian. Okay. your pioneers that systematized your theology around the law took what the Presbyterian the reformed view and understanding of the law is and then filtered it like they do with everything through the great controversy theme to make it fit with Adventism. So if you think I’m an Antonyian or you

Think I’m one of these lawless, you know, there’s no law, folks. Antonyomianism was denounced as a heresy in the 4th century just because there was a spurt of that heresy in the 19th century in the region that the early 7th Day Adventists were in which made them have this mentality that this is what all those other people out there believe. They’re all lawless. They’re all Antonyomians. That’s the excuse they tried to use with Canrite. He’s an Antonyomian. Except he literally explicitly states in his book that the same thing I just said. Antonyomianism

Is a heresy. I don’t affirm that. And he says it’s it’s wrong for them to label people as this for simply disagreeing with them. This is an area where the false dilemma fallacy is always utilized. If you disagree with the SDA view on something of the law, it means that you don’t think the law has any application. So Adrian, I’m not an Antonyomian. I don’t know what the point of your your question here is. My question back to you, which if you were to join, we could dialogue on this maybe, but um my question back to you would be, do you even understand what Jesus is preaching

And teaching in Matthew 5? That’s what really matters because the problem is not with the scriptures. The problem is your guys’s understanding of the law, the use of the law. That’s the problem, not the law. Paul says the law is good, righteous, and holy. I agree. So what’s your point? The issue is is what you guys think the use of the law is. That’s the problem, not the law. You guys think it’s a barometer for entrance into heaven, but you don’t understand that the law makes no provisions for forgiveness, doovers, etc. You break it, you pay the penalty.

That’s it. Because justice demands that that be the case. And God is just. That’s what Paul is getting at in Romans 3 when he says God is the just and the justifier. He didn’t let sin slide by punishing it in the person of Christ. But then he’s also the justifier who spares the people who place their faith and trust in Christ. So he’s the justifier of those who by faith believe on the Lord Jesus. So he can be both. He pays the penalty for sin, punishes sin in the person of Christ. Sin is a legal debt. The Lord’s Prayer in Matthew and the Lord’s Prayer in Luke. You can cross

Reference. Luke calls it sin the sin debt and indebtedness. Matthew calls it sin. Legal debts can be lawfully transferred. So, for example, the law required that if you killed a neighbor’s ox, you had to pay that back uh I can’t remember the specific provision for that one. Four-fold. Um either way, if you didn’t have the the the oxen yourself to be able to give to the the person the restitution there, you could somebody else who could step in and say, “Here, I can pay that for you and give some of my oxen.” And that was lawfully allowed. That’s exactly what happened with Jesus.

Jesus paid the penalty for sin. Okay? And in doing so, God punished sin in the person of Christ. but then justifies people on the basis of their faith alone in Christ alone. The purpose of the law is to reveal sin. That’s what Paul explicitly says. The law was given and sin increased because it raised the awareness. He explains that on the conscience of an individual, God has written moral, a moral code. It’s what Romans 1 and 2 is all about. Written within the conscience of an individual are you don’t need told. We don’t rape people unless you have something fun

Fundamentally flawed in your your mental state because that’s written on the conscience of an individual. This is why Paul then says death reigned from Adam to Moses even before the law was given to Moses. That’s because sin was still present and people had a conscience that if they violated it, like we were just looking at earlier with violating the conscience, that’s a sin. But when the law was revealed, sin increased because the awareness of sin increased. It wasn’t like, oh, now all of a sudden we see that murder is wrong. Well, no. Cain was held liable for murder. Yet

Sinai hadn’t happened yet. Joseph knew that adultery was wrong and that he was being tempted by that with Piper’s wife. Piper’s wife lied about Joseph and had him unlawfully thrown in prison. That violates the Ten Commandments, bearing false witness, trying to cause somebody else to sin. I mean, there’s just so many things there. That’s all before Sinai. So, I don’t know what the purpose of this question is because I’m not lawless. I’m not an Antonomian. And I affirm the reformed view of the law, which is what the SDA church borrowed from, but then

Filtered it through the great controversy, which is what creates the problem, not the law. And the purpose of the law again is to point out people point people’s sin out, which is exactly what Jesus is doing in Matthew 5. He’s not saying Adventists, for example, love Matthew 5:48. Let’s just bring this up since it’s on the the website here as well. We have an article dedicated to this specific verse. Does Matthew 5:48 teach we must be sinless to be saved? What does it say here? Adventists will often quote Matthew 5:48 to support the idea that sinless

Perfectionism is required to be saved. In their minds, the verse could be understood to be saying, “Be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect if you want to be saved and reconciled to God.” That’s the unspoken addition in a lot of SDA’s minds. This is incorrect. The verse is a part of it of the larger sermon on the mount in Matthew 5. He is expounding upon the law and showing the hearer how far they fall short of the standard. If you keep reading into the next two chapters, Jesus transitions into the gospel, which is the good news for sinners

Regarding their sin and need for a savior. The 7th Adventist Church doesn’t properly understand what is called the law gospel distinction in the scriptures. The law is anything in scripture that has to do with commands or prohibitions. The gospel is anything in scripture pertaining to justification, salvation, reconciliation, and the mercy of God. Both have a place and function in the Christian life. It is by the gospel that we are saved, not by the law. The law convicts the sinner, showing them their need of a savior, pointing them to the gospel where they

Find forgiveness and reconciliation. Jesus is simply revealing to sinners how far they fall short in Matthew 5:48. The standard is total perfection, not how they can be reconciled to God and saved. He explains that later when transitioning into the gospel. So Jesus’s point in Matthew 5 is not unless you measure up to the law perfectly, you’re not going to be saved. That’s not that’s not what he’s getting at. What he says there should cause you to tremble and go, “Oh my goodness, I don’t meet that standard. Perfection is not, well, continuing to try and try and

Try and try and try until you eventually arrive at a state.” No, no, no, no. Jesus is the standard. Jesus never sinned a single time. The purpose is to show you your sin. That’s the purpose of the law. And it’s still valid today to point people to Christ. That’s the purpose of it today. And yes, there is a three-fold distinction between the moral, civil, and ceremonial law. I’m not one of those either. Again, your pioneers got this from reformed people. So, that’s why it drives me berserk. It’s one of my personal pet peeves when you get former Adventists that

Think, “Well, that sounds like Adventism. That’s not biblical. Where does the Bible say anywhere anything about a three-fold division of the law? We have to understand the hermeneutic that this is coming from. We don’t affirm or believe and the reformers, none of them, even Lutheran, the German Reformation, none of them had a hermeneutic of literalism that everything has to be stated verbatim. There’s moral law, there’s civil law, there’s ceremonial law. That that’s not how that’s derived at. is derived at through a lot of rigor and looking through that well prior to the giving of

Sinai murder was wrong. Yet prior to Sinai there was nothing about mixed fabrics. Mixed fabrics was uh it’s not transcendently moral. It was moral for a time because God commanded that for a time. But mixed fab fabrics has nothing to do with reflecting who God is, which is what the things that would be called moral law are. God’s not a liar. So therefore, lying is wrong. It’s not just like arbitrary like, oh, God just went down a list. But then the other error the SDA church makes is they think the Ten Commandments are a summation of the entirety of moral law or at least some

Of them do. No, not even close. So it doesn’t end there. But all of that to say, uh, Adrian, I’m not an Antonyomian. I’m not, you know, not all former Adventists are the same way, folks. The thing that unites Christians is that we recognize the law gospel distinction and we worship the same God. We recognize even if we have differences of opinion on the law, there’s lots of former Adventists that most former adventists, I don’t know if I’ve met very many actually that agree with my understanding and belief of the law, but they’re just as much Christians as I am

Because they understand at the basic level the law is not the gospel. So, we have disagreements on things. I’m a sabotarian. Most former Adventists are not sabotarians. That’s okay. They’re not lost. It doesn’t mean they don’t believe the gospel. I’d actually continue pushing in on them and say, “Well, to some degree you actually are if you’re attending church on the first day, the Lord’s day, then to some degree you are, because that day is set aside as distinct and separate.” But nevertheless, I don’t want to rant, but my point being is I don’t think your question is valid

To me because it sounds like you are assuming that I’m an Antonyomian or that I’m like a lot of former Adventists who have been influenced by 20th century uh theologies that you know are steeped in uh well just ancient heresy, Marianism, Antonyomianism that unhitched the Old Testament, that type thing. question. What do you think about the uh changing the church from the inside? I understand you’re mostly against it. Yeah, I commented on this earlier. I I I respect the people that have this desire. I understand the the thinking because folks, you have to remember for

A lot of SDAs, especially generational SDAs, you’re coming out of a movement where all of your life is tied up in this. All of it. Unlike like folks, think about this. What other church out there? And I know SDA, I’ll preface by saying, I know Adventists are going to be like, “That’s not technically owned by the SDA church, bro.” Just bear with me. Come on. Let’s not be contentious just for the sake of being contentious. Okay. But what other church out there, folks, has their own lines of fake meat? I I mean, have you ever thought about that? Imagine if you heard

Like like oh yeah the Baptist meat meat bundle or or just like you’ve got Worthington Foods you know the like they have their own fake meat lines and that is an insight for people on the outside to see this movement’s different than other movements. It is a one-stop shop. It is a cradle to the grave culture. You’re born into this to Adventist parents who were more than likely Adventist college students. if they were like my parents, a nursing major and a religion major, the old SDA stereotype who get married, they have a kid, they start reading The Adventist Home by

Ellen White, learning that sort of stuff, maybe even in their their their premarital counseling phase because their pastor is suggesting that. And then the child starts to grow up and gets to the age of cradle roll. Cradle roll is like the earliest Sabbath school. So they don’t have Sunday school, they have Sabbath school. It’s like the earliest phase. Then you get enrolled into Sabbath school where you get to learn all the fun little songs. Jesus loves the little children. You get to learn animals. Animals. Jesus made the aminals, you know, the kids that mispronounce the

Words and it’s all cute and fun, etc. And then they get to sprinkle in imagery and art, which is a big thing in in Adventism. I have a bunch of the Adventist art books actually in the other room and you’re getting sprinkled in Ellen White’s take on the the system on what the Bible’s actually saying, what the story is actually teaching. So Daniel was a vegetarian. He rejected Babylon’s meat. So, you start to get the drip feed from cradle roll. You then get enrolled in an Adventist school when you’re old enough and you go to an Adventist doctor and shop at an

Adventist grocery store and go to an Adventist church and all of your friends are Adventists all the way up. I’m not saying obviously this is every single person. We’re talking the generational SDA here. the the typical sort of experience all the way up through college where in college you may get a job working for the church somewhere there on campus at one of the churches in the area etc or you get an internship with one of the organizations affiliated with the church you then get a job with the church if you’re lucky and you’re one of the special ones

You’ll find a mate in SDA college, which is a huge thing. You got to find your SDA spouse while you’re there in college because your chances just significantly drop afterward. And then the cycle repeats. But as you’re getting older, you can get checked into an Adventist living facility all the way down to the to the grave. So, I say all of that to say I understand the people that want to change it from the inside. Not every one of them is a generational SDA. I I get all that, but that’s kind of some backstory for people where you don’t really have that

In Presbyterian culture, Baptist culture, non-denominational culture. It is a fullon closed system with grocery stores and doctors and schools and churches and activities and camp meeting and summer camps. So, I understand the the we need to try and change it from the inside, folks. It is futile. It’s futile. They have had their opportunity. They had their opportunity. And there were still problems even before this. People often say, you know, you’re a Dez Ford parrot. You’re a Dale Ratzoff parrot. You’re a this parrot. You’re a Canite parrot. It’s just like it’s so it’s like

What are you talking about? Those people don’t I consider those people Christian brothers. I could be wrong. I don’t know the state of any individual. But it’s like you don’t even know my theology then. They weren’t reformed. I disagree with them on tons of things. I disagree with Kandra on tons of things. There’s objections that I have with the SDA church that that Dez Ford never said. He remained cordial. He still remained positive about Ellen White. He never said the SDA church has a false Christ. He wanted to reform and thought that they had a false understanding of the

Gospel, but he was way softer than I am. But my point being is they’ve had opportunity after opportunity after opportunity. But the problem is, folks, and the reason why this will never happen is because the disconnect between the individual who has this desire and reality is that the individual that has the desire more than likely does not understand what it would mean for them to change. This whole thing is a house of cards. It’s a system. You can’t have the system without Ellen White. You can’t have the system without imminency. You can’t have the system

Without the great controversy theme. You can’t have the system without the seventh day Sabbath. You can’t have the system without 1844 and the investigative judgment. All of this stuff is a system. And if one thing falls, the whole thing comes toppling down. For example, well, we need to just move along. Like I I have I have family members in the the more, you know, liberal wing of Adventism, the the the the West Coast American Adventism, who have things like, “Well, Yellen White was just a great commentator.” Well, we need to move on from the investigative

Judgment, but they don’t understand what that would mean. That would mean 1844 was a farce. The SDA church was built on a lie. The whole thing collapses at that point. Ellen White. You remove Ellen White. Uh, okay. You’re no longer the remnant. That’s the identifying mark of the remnant church. So, if you’re not the remnant, we don’t need to come join you guys because the wrath of God’s going to be, you know, spared on the only the remnant. That then has trickle effects. So, I understand the heart behind wanting to do it and loving the people and loving

The experience and loving that culture and all of that stuff. I get it completely, but it’s futile. It’s futile, which is why I’m against it because we’re not called to to to remain part. We’re we’re called to avoid the appearance of evil. There’s other verses and and stuff we could get into and and talk about as well, but a valid application of that is why would you remain a part of an organization if you understand the gospel? I’m assuming the reason you’re trying to change it here is because you’re like, “Well, yeah, what they’re claiming the gospel is isn’t the gospel,

Etc.” You know, I I understand the gospel, though, and I’m going to try and teach it to other people inside. Where does the Bible tell us to associate with evil that way? That’s not the approach Paul took. It wasn’t, “Well, you know, I know the people here in Galatia. I I know that there’s these Judaizers that have crept in. They’re preaching a false gospel. Stay where you are and try and change.” No. No. He straight up says, “These people are cursed by God. This cannot save. They’re distorting the gospel.” He goes on to say specifically that while they’re

Doing the act of circumcision, he hopes their hand slips and they cut the whole thing off. That’s the length he’s willing to go to to say, “That’s what I hope happens to these people.” Why would you want to remain a part of an organization that’s doing that? Great. you want to uh uh uh uh try and change the the the church from the inside. Okay, come outside and get involved with answering Adventism and let’s do this thing. That’s what we’re doing. But I’m not going to remain a part of the organization for the sake of trying to have inroads to then begin,

You know, trying to No, no. We’re going to call it out, expose what’s in the darkness with the light, and we’re going to do the same thing, but from the outside, and not be touching that with a 10-ft pole, just like I wouldn’t want a person to to remain in Mormonism for the sake of, well, let’s try and uh change things from the inside. No, get out. You’re being taught again all of this stuff, even if your pastor isn’t mentioning Ellen White. We get that one all the time. My pastor never mentions Ellen White. Yeah, I guarantee your pastor has a great

Controversy worldview, which is the issue. That’s the problem. Christians do not have a great controversy worldview. So, yeah, I think it’s I think it’s futile, but I do I’m sympathetic toward it. I understand that lots of uh lots of uh people want to take that approach. Question, Miles. How do SDA distinguish or think they’re they are not like Jehovah’s Witnesses? Is it them keeping the Sabbath and they don’t want to uh I’m not quite sure brother the end of your uh your your comment there my brother in humanity. Um sorry I don’t quite know the question

But I will expound upon how do SDAs distinguish or think they’re not like Jehovah’s Witnesses. So on Monday we’re breaking the ice on cult talk. I’ve waited on this for a bit only because uh I feel like sometimes people can kind of think you’re using the word cult just to be like jock jock type thing. Um when no there’s like a real serious definition of it. It’s not just like the pop culture idea of like oh it’s like some crazed person like Jim Jones drink the Kool-Aid like we’re going to go all commit suicide. Um it’s not all like that. Um, but on Monday

We’re breaking the ice on on on Colts and we’re going to talk about this a little bit here, more so focusing on the similarities. A series is going to happen eventually. I don’t know when on the road map this is going to happen, but we’re going to get into the history behind a lot of these Millerite groups because what you’re going to find is a lot of the similarities, but you’re also going to find a number of differences. So, one big one that I think is worth mentioning here, please listen up folks. If you are going to engage with SDAs apologetically,

Please understand Michael the Archangel is not the best route to go. This is an area where SDAs end up getting fake victory because and lots of groups do this. They’re hoping that you’ve you’ve done the Google search and you heard some talking point from some individual who probably had good intentions, etc., but was not intimately involved with the system enough to know the nuances. Thus, they end up doing equivocation. They make an equating between, well, Jehovah’s Witnesses say this and so do SDAs. Therefore, they believe the same thing. You do that and

SDA is going to immediately shut down. They’re going to say, you don’t know what we believe. And they’re just going to completely dismiss it. Roberto, I actually if if you’re who I believe you are, I think you’re a Roman Catholic. It’d be the same thing when a a a Protestant would tell you, “Well, you guys believe Christ has been sacrificed potentially billions of times in the mass.” You’re going to hear that and say, “Uh, this person doesn’t know what we believe. He doesn’t understand that we teach and believe it’s a representation of the same sacrifice of Christ that

People approach. It’s a bloodless um propitiatory representation of the same sacrifice of Christ. So, it’s going to be the same thing in that area when it comes to Michael the Archangel. So, the reason they distinguish or or think of themselves differently from the Jehovah’s Witnesses is yes, the keeping of the Sabbath. There was a period of time where and it wasn’t just Jehovah’s Witnesses during this time but they were involved in this where there was a a ecumenical if you will uh group of people that were were called the first day Adventists and Ellen White wrote

Claiming to be shown by God that oh the first day Adventist all this terrible stuff and yada yada as if they’re any better. Um but yeah they were a part of that. So the Sabbath yes is one of the areas. The other area that people like to oftentimes say is a uh a similarity and and is basically identical is soul sleep. That’s not true because the the more accurate description would be soul death. The SDA church teaches and believes that the the soul is a byproduct of the combination of breath and the body. When the two are separated, the soul no longer exists.

There’s nothing resting or sleeping. um the the life of the individual is just totally gone. So soul death would be a more accurate uh understanding of that. But you get people who think, well, see, they’re like Jehovah’s Witnesses. They believe in soul sleep and Michael the Archangel. Yeah, but the beliefs are are different. And that’s actually why they they refrain or or like to refrain from the phrase soul sleep is because it’s associated with Jehovah’s Witnesses. So when it comes to Michael the Archangel, they have a hybridized view. We’re getting ready. Actually, I’m not going

To I’m not going to break the ice actually on that because uh the next part in the Adventist Jesus series, part eight, is on this specific topic. So, I’ll save the goods for that video. Um, but there’s a number of ways that they distinguish themselves from SDAs. Whenever they refer to or you hear them oftentimes referring to uh a spiritual resurrection that already occurred, etc. Um, that’s the Jehovah’s Witnesses back from the the the Millerite split days. um where the Jehovah’s Witnesses believe and teach that there was a spiritual resurrection and um Jesus didn’t

Physically raise from the dead. Jehovah’s believe Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe Jesus physically resurrected. They believe he spiritually resurrected. Um SDAs believe he physically resurrected. Um the Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Christ was crucified on a stake, not the cross. The SDAs believe it was a cross. So there are definitely distinguishers even on the areas that it looks like there’s similarities. However, there are similarities. Like I said, we will get into those on or at least one of them, a big one, a key one of not just Jehovah’s

Witnesses, but Mormons, Christian Science, a number of other groups. We will get into that on Monday. So, hopefully that answers your question. Um, let’s see. Do we got anything else here? Do more stuff like what you did with Seeking What They Sought. You know, it’s funny you mentioned that. I like those guys. They’re nice guys. Um, I was invited to go onto their platform. Um, and so I just accepted the the extension. I was told what it was, kind of the thesis, what the questions are going to be. Um, and I agreed to it. Um, they I told them in that interview and

Or maybe it was after. Either way, I know that I told them they are more than welcome to come on to my platform. I just know that some individuals um and I’m not saying whether uh this is the case for them or or not for them um but just in the ca in in the the general um a lot of people don’t like pmical engagement. They don’t like confrontational type engagement and this platform is not about just well let’s just have an SDA on here to like lecture us about what they believe about the the health message. That’s not the purpose of this platform. And a lot of SDAs,

That’s only what they’re interested in. Well, I’m not interested in dealing with being challenged. I’m more so just interested in sharing why we believe what we do and then just leaving it there. And that’s fine, but start your own platform for that. We’re not just going to platform you to come on here and preach Adventism and then be like, “All right, folks. There you go. That that’s what they they claim and believe.” Because in that presentation, the issue is is I’m going to be sitting there with my my tongue basically going to have to go to the ER because I’m

Going to bit my tongue off because there’s so many areas where I’m be like, “Well, hold up because I know what you guys mean by by this word or this point.” And it just it’s going to end up snowballing into uh not being very productive if it’s not mutually understood from the jump. um the the point of of coming on to this platform would be to discuss the serious issues and differences because this is a pmical platform for that purpose and reason. That’s the key issue. It’s not just to have people on to discuss. So all of that to say, I don’t know if those guys

Are really interested in the sort of like being an apologist for Adventism or being challenged on on those sorts of things. I don’t think that discussion kind of went the way they anticipated. I told them at the beginning before it started, gentlemen, you understand what I do, right? You understand where I’m coming from, correct? I’m not gonna be like rude to you guys, etc. It may be perceived that way, but um I care about pleasing God and not man. And so they knew full well. Um they they said, “Yeah, of course.” And so I like discussions like that. And so I would

Like to do more stuff like that, but again, it’s kind of a two-way street. And I I don’t really know if they want to come on here to try and defend a specific point of Adventism, but maybe there is something out there that uh would be a good crossover that we could try and get into. I’ve tried to get I don’t know how many people on this platform debate Doug Bachelor. You’re scared. If you if you if you’re so bold and you’re willing, folks, make it happen. Make it happen. You can’t force people to do stuff. Don’t act like we haven’t tried to some degree and and I

Get this. Doug probably doesn’t want to punch down. I get that when you get to a certain size if you’re, you know, Amazing Facts is huge. So, he probably doesn’t want to give exposure to answering Adventism. And B, he doesn’t want it to appear like he’s punching down. I get that. I totally get that. But Adventists, or a lot of Adventists, do not. They think the issue is is you’re you’re scared to folks. I would I told Doug Bachelor I would fly out to California on my own dime and debate him at his own church on the subject of the Sabbath. That was the the open challenge.

Okay. They’re not going to respond. We’ve had people liaison reach out to them. Their response was unqualified. Okay. That’s their opinion of me. So, it’s hard to get people like that to engage, but then the people that do want to engage, Adventists will dogpile on and say, “Well, that’s not an accurate representation. I’m just dealing the hands that I’m dealt.” That’s why we do these open mics. It’s for you guys to show up, to step up, to engage. I’d love, like I said, I’d be engaging with SDAs face to face. If I knew somewhere locally where it’s like, “Oh, yeah, SDA’s publicly,

You know, congregate here and it’s public property. You know, you can show up and whatnot.” I would be there every week. I’d be there every week. I’d be inviting these people over for dinner. I’d be I’d be hosting events at my house. I can’t find it. So, I would love to do more stuff like that. Um, but uh yeah. Did Jehovah’s Witnesses come out of the Millerite movement as well? Yes, they did. Yep. Do you think this health eating message can contribute to mental decline? Jay, it’s funny you mentioned this and here’s why. Modern science, especially in the last,

So the the the fake meat industry, like Beyond Meat and that sort of stuff, a lot of interesting data has come out recently regarding these um lab meats, that’s what I call them. Um well, I guess technically speaking, now there’s technically lab meat, which is different than like soybased meats. Um, but nevertheless, the the fake meat industry, it’s become a lot more popular or it did become a lot more popular within like the last 10 years or so. And there wasn’t a ton of data out there on a lot of this information because it wasn’t a wide thing. You had Worthington Foods,

Morning Star Farms, these sorts of things. Um, the in terms of the fake meat aspect of things, um, you know, existing, but they weren’t like super popular. They’re a lot more popular now and you’ve got fast food restaurants that are adopting, you know, the faux burger and and that sort of stuff, but with that has come a lot more study on this stuff and you mentioned mental decline. I don’t have it off the top of my head here. My wife actually shared this with me um and it was three or four weeks ago probably. Um maybe I can find that if I remember I can link it down in

The description box down below. um a study that came out that showed that uh well a c a number of the central tenants of the health message actually in some people because believe it or not all body types are the same. Uh I know that’s probably a shocker but not all body types are the same and in certain people they found that certain principles that are embraced by the health message not just that stuff and there were other things that corroborated on top of that. It was an amalgamation of things no pun intended. Um, but a number of things that the

Adventist health message purports were amongst the list of things that lead to Alzheimer’s. So, it depends what you mean by health eating because again, this this message I it it has no understanding of nuance. It has no understanding of not all body types are the same. I adhere to the health message. It was the most unhealthy I’ve ever been in my life. And I actually attribute it to a number of health issues that I currently have to this day. My metabolism, folks, I’m one of these individuals who’s hungry constantly. Keeping on weight is difficult.

People think, “Oh, that must be amazing.” No, it’s not really. It’s not really. It It’s not really enjoyable being hungry constantly. It’s not really enjoyable when your body It’s hard to maintain like your your base weight that is for your height. Well, when I was on the Avenous Health following the Adventist health message, that was like skyrocketed. I had headaches constantly as a kid. Well, no duh. I wasn’t getting an It’s like you’re eating literally vegetables and fruits and a bunch of carbs and virtually no protein. And if it is, it’s plant protein, which all proteins aren’t

Created equal. So, I ended up developing compartment syndrome in my legs, which they’re now believing again is is they didn’t have a diagnosis on such and they’re still exploring on that. But they believe it has to do with people’s diets and people that had because for those that don’t know, compartment syndrome is where your muscles, they have a tissue running around them. Compartment syndrome is where when you work out, your muscles expand, but that tissue, the fascia doesn’t expand. So, the muscle is being squeezed by the tissue. It makes your muscles feel like

They’re going to explode when they get exercised. Seriously. And it can I disclaimer if you Google compartment syndrome and you look at a blowout, be prepared. People’s legs bl the muscle blowing out of the skin because the pressure is so high. Well, they believe that this has to do with health with with uh deficiencies that people experience through their growth years where the fascia cannot keep up with the muscular structure. If you look at pictures of me when I was a kid following the health message, I was as skinny as a rail, but my calves were

Huge. That’s where my compartment syndrome is. So, all of that to say, depends what you mean by this health eating stuff. I will give it to the SDA church. They deserve credit where credit is due. There are a lot of people in the SDA church that prioritize and value a healthy lifestyle, meaning being active, not just being sedentary all the time, taking proper precautions, drinking enough water, etc. That’s good stuff. So, if you mean that sort of stuff, which I don’t think you do, um, well, no, but the deficiencies is the the primary issue. this idea that

Every single body type and every single person out there, a messorph, an exomorph, all of they’re all the same and they’re in order to be fit for heaven, you have to be able to subsist on the edenic diet, which there we get into an argument there of whether or not that is actually the proper understanding of what’s going on there. Whether or not, well, that’s just a whole another can of worms, but that’s uh that’s my my response on on that. I think we answered this earlier just asking again, do SDAs and Jehovah’s Witness have common origins? Yes, they

Both came out of Millerism. We will talk about this on the video on Monday. Um Josh here says yes, I believe all four cults came out of the Millerite movement. Uh one thing that needs to be understood is that Mormons did not come out of Millerism. Um well, yeah, that Mormons didn’t come out of Millerism. Often times people think Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, uh, Christian Science, and Seventh Day Adventist all came out of Millerism. Mormonism predated that. The Book of Mormon was already actually published in 1830. William Miller got his start um, in 1833

With uh, oh, what’s his face? Joshua. Joshua got Miller out while he was on his tour circuit in 1833 and got the ball going on that to where that first year leading up to 44 a decade before well it was at 43 a decade before the prediction of October 2 or or specifically 1843. We didn’t get October 22nd until into the first passing of the disappointment into the spring of 1844 where that crackpot Samuel Snow who thought he was the reincarnation of Elisha the prophet before the second coming claimed that through all this wonky math that oh it’s October 22nd of

This year specifically but nevertheless um Jehovah’s Witnesses Mormons and or are Jehovah’s Witnesses SDAs and Christian science I can’t remember Mary Baker’s Mary Baker Eddie’s uh attachment to Millerism specifically. It’s been a minute since I’ve dug in on them. Um we talked about them in passing on Monday, but uh Jehovah’s Witnesses and SDAs most assuredly came out of Millerism. Mormonism actually predated that um by about a decade and a half or so just in terms of they were still getting things formulated and f and like founded, but it was before Miller was actually even

Out on the touring circuit. Um, but the thing that a lot of people are getting cross or or thinking that there’s the connection there is because they were still affirming some of the foundational things that all these groups around this burnedover district were affirming at that time. The the great apostasy of the first century and the true church fell away and needed to be restored and we’re that group that God raised up to restore these truths and we have this special aspect and we have this special message that only we were given to take to the

Rest of the world. That sort of thing. So, Kenny asks, “Was the Great Controversy ripped off or influenced by Mormon pre-earth narrative? It’s awfully similar.” Yes, it was. Uh, we’re going to actually be doing uh in later in February. Uh, I’m going to have the Cultish guys on the platform, and this is exactly what we’re going to be talking about actually. Um, and then I will be going on their platform for uh two-parter, I believe, um, to continue digging in on this specific aspect because there’s just not enough stuff out there for people to understand um,

And see that really both Smith and White were both ripping off of ultimately uh, Paradise Lost, John Milton’s Paradise Lost, which is a historical uh, fiction. He didn’t try and pass this off as being actual history. It’s a it’s a historical f fiction work of the fall of Satan told from the vantage point of Satan. Well, these kpots clearly didn’t realize this thing called the internet was going to come around um that could easily allow us to to verify like what you’re saying is literally what John Milton’s Paradise Law says. The Bible doesn’t say this. Well, God gave

It to our our prophet to reveal to uh you to believe and if you don’t believe it, you’re going to be damned. Um but yes, their pre-earth origin stories are almost identical in I’ve documented down 14 similarities that are a onetoone. Um now there are things that are obviously different but they both have this narrative of there’s eternal laws that um the devil essentially stood up against and was fighting against and waring against and there was a council that the devil wasn’t brought into that the son was brought into and both of them are Michael the archangel. Um now

You have the Mormons saying that he’s the spirit brother of Satan. The SDAs don’t believe that. So, of course, there’s details that are different, but the generals of there was a council. This devil was barred from it. He became jealous of Jesus and he became waring against these eternal laws and Jesus came to demonstrate that these laws are eternal and unchanging and Satan’s accusing God and God’s people. And so, yeah, there’s a a huge parallel there, Kenny. And uh in the future, like I said, we will be exploring that a lot more in full. All right, folks. We’re probably going

To close things out here. We are approaching the threehour mark. Jeff Thompson says, “Miles, you know, you like those stripples, dude. I loved stripples. I’d eat a whole box of stripples.” That’s what I’m saying. My appetite, I’d be like, my dad would be like, “Dude, we just bought those. You ate the whole box. Those are expensive.” Yeah, I’m starving. But yeah, I did like stripples, but I don’t eat any of that stuff now because uh I actually took a food intolerance test and I’m I have a food intolerance to soy. I was pumped full of soy as a kid and

It’s like one it was on my avoid list. It was a 100% in the red that said do not consume this. Here’s all the reactions, and I’m not going to go into what they are, but it explains some other things about why I was having some struggles on the Adventist diet. So, I did like stripples, but again, I don’t eat that stuff now because it is just not worth the consequences. All right. Do we have anything else here? Do we have anything else here? Uh, sorry, folks. We got a lot of comments that came through here. Roberto again says, “Miles, can you reach out to Eric Yarba on the order of

MelkiseDC, please?” You know, that would be a fascinating discussion. I like Eric. Eric is a very ironic and and cordial guy. For those that don’t know, he’s a Roman Catholic apologist. Um, I don’t know, Roberto, uh, if well, I don’t know exactly what you would would want to talk about on that. I don’t know exactly what the the thesis would be. I think we have some uh I think we have some differences in our understanding of the uh the priesthood of Christ uh as well as just the the general uh universal priesthood of all believers, the Melkazedcian priesthood

And stuff in that regard. But um yeah, actually you might be interested to hear this. This is going to trigger a lot of people. And you know what? Sorry, don’t care. Um, I’m a big believer in freedom of association. So, if you don’t want to associate with certain people, you have the freedom to do that. Joe Heshmire is going to be on uh in a month or so. We’re going to be discussing, for those that don’t know, Joe Heshmire is a uh he’s the host of the Shameless Popery podcast. Uh he is an apologist over at Catholic Answers. He’s going to be coming on and the

Thesis of that is going to be examining a number of uh the SDA church’s claims about the Roman Catholic Church and we’re going to ask an apologist who is qualified, is this accurate? Because folks, it matters that we represent people accurately. Adventists are thinking, “Oh, that’s ironic. You misrepresent us all the time.” Yeah, that’s the assertion. To demonstrate that, you have to examine primary source documentation, which is why I utilize primary source documentation. So, we need to seek to represent people accurately, even if we disagree with them.

So, we’re going to bring Joe on for the purpose of examining, is what this movement is saying true? What do you guys mean by this? What do you mean by that? He already knows I’m going to disagree with him on a ton of things he’s going to say. He knows I’m not a Roman Catholic. But really what will trigger SDAs is they’re going to say, “Well, if you disagree with him, why aren’t you as confrontational with him? And why isn’t the conversation contentious?” That’s what they’ll really be saying. Why aren’t you being contentious with him if you’re always contentious with

SDAs? I’m not always contentious with SDAs. Like you think every time I talk to my dad, we’re just like duking it out. No. So, freedom of association. But Roberto, you will probably appreciate that. Um, should be a a pretty interesting discussion. I like Joe. He’s a nice guy. Obviously disagree with him uh and you uh on a number of of things theologically, but should be a good uh discussion nonetheless. All right, folks. We’re going to shut things down for the night. Thank you for all of you that came and engaged. Felix, we love you, my friend.

I hope you hear that. We do not hate SDAs, folks. If I hated SDAs, I wouldn’t be doing this. You think I I don’t have better things that I could be doing with my time? You understand how much time it takes to do things like this? It’s just whenever we hear the comment about you’re in this for the money, you hate SDAs, you have an axe to grind. It’s like, dude, if that were the case, I mean, my goodness, I’ve taken a pay cut doing this. We we’d lose money doing this. because it’s not about the money. It’s about eternal treasures. I believe that.

And I’m willing to put my money where my mouth is. I didn’t envision ever being a public figure. People can get online and now all sorts of people, people that have jobs, anything, they can all see all this. You don’t think that costs me in life outside of the SDA bubble? Like, oh man, this guy’s really a religious zealot. Oh, I don’t know if we want to do business with that guy. You don’t see all this stuff, but I’m willing to sacrifice that sort of stuff because I care about SDAs. We care about you. That gentleman that came up was bold enough and brave enough folks

To be honest and say, “Yep, that doesn’t jive. Doesn’t jive with what Paul said.” Okay, I see the logic in what you’re saying. That’s just the logic. It’s not me just I’m not the one that said this. I’m just the one that’s trying to utilize logical thinking like God calls us to do. And that’s not where the truth leads. It’s not true. Period. I don’t care if family is associated with it or not. That doesn’t make it true. Oh, I was raised in this. Sorry. That’s not what makes it true. It’s not makes it true because, oh, well, my dad is this. Oh, how could I believe it’s false if I have

Family? That’s not the determiner of truth, folks. Oh, it’s the most beautiful message ever. Yep, that’s what Mormons say. That’s what Bahigh says. That’s what Unity says. It’s what Christian Science says. They all say this. They all think it’s the most beautiful message ever. That’s not what makes it true. We want Adventists to come know the truth. You don’t have to give up being a vegetarian. You don’t have to give up believing, you know, health things, being into nutrition. That’s great, but it’s not the gospel. And people that reject that are not lost.

They don’t reject God because they reject the Adventist health message. Okay? They’re not lost. And then working this stuff in as we’re going to see next week because Dr. Frost is going to be here and we’re going to look at a discussion or rather a presentation that Ivor Meyers gave on 3ABN where we’re going to see this exact thing getting worked into how the hallmarks of God’s true people. He says the whole book of Daniel is all about Seventh Adventist. Chapter 1 and two is talking about rejecting Babylon’s meat and the world’s food. And he goes through all these things and

Says the overview that you can see through all the chapters of Daniel as it’s laying out all these SDA distinctives. And it’s a it’s an, you know, an esqueological foretelling of what the end times is going to be like. They will work it into anywhere. And that’s how it makes its way into you have to believe this to be be prepared for the second coming. If you don’t accept this stuff, you’re not going to be prepared. The early SDAs were willing to be bold on this. They weren’t compromisers. They weren’t like, “Oh, well, we’re just another denomination like you, brother.

We believe just like you do. We’re just like another denomination.” No, not at all. Not at all. And we want Adventists to come to know the truth, the true Christ, the true gospel, that you can be prepared for the return of Christ right now, this very moment. Because folks, salvation is not dependent upon you. It’s dependent upon God. God saves people. The God of the Bible saves people. He’s not trying his best. But then these pe the people have to meet the some condition. And once they meet all the conditions, then they’re qualified to be found worthy and savable

Because then they can then then Jesus can actually silence the accusations of Satan in the great controversy and show that he’s fair and just in s. Just read the courtroom scene. That’s what it’s titled in in Ellen White’s Christ in His Sanctuary chapter nine. Jesus is able to silence the accusations of Satan in this coming courtroom scene because he’s able to demonstrate that the people he saves, he is just in saving. They are made savable. They’ve arrived at a condition where they silence the accusations of Satan. And thus Jesus can save them. They’ve

Met the conditions. That’s not the gospel. That’s not the gospel. And so Adventists are like the hamster on a wheel doing doing doing more more. Get ready. Get ready. Get ready. And they’re never prepared. And I’m not talking down seeking holy living. But that’s not what saves you. That’s not what keeps you saved. It’s Christ alone, friends. Christ alone. The SDA church claims to affirm solo Christo. No, they don’t. But that’s what solo Christo means. Christ alone. Well, Christ is the one that does all the saving. We believe that. No, you don’t. Because you don’t

Believe he can do it apart from you meeting some sort of conditions. Luther was exactly right. The dividing line is monism versus synergism. There’s a lot of inconsistent synergists out there. Thank God. But if you believe that you in any form or fashion supplement what the Lord Jesus did, well, we both do our part and we cooperate and arrive at an end end result, not the gospel. You’re saying what Jesus did is not enough. Something else has to be added on top of that, no matter what way you dice it. And recognizing this does not mean that you don’t think people should

Seek a holy life. It doesn’t mean that you don’t think people should be growing and and maturing etc. It simply is recognizing that my salvation is not dependent upon me. It’s not dependent upon all these things. And I wake up every day with the posture God be merciful to me a sinner. Please give me the strength today to be more like Christ to love my wife the way that you loved the church and gave yourself for her to not be embittered toward my wife so that my prayers be hindered. Help me to live with her in an understanding way as the weaker vessel. Please help me to

Be a godly parent. Please help me to be a godly father to please help me to lead my family well as you call Christians to do. Yet I still fall short in those areas because the flesh flares up and then you know you seek reconciliation etc. But all of that stuff does not keep or maintain a person’s salvation. That’s the issue. The SDA church, because we’ve looked at this before, teaches that your ongoing obedience is what maintains your justification. That’s not the gospel, friends. That’s not the gospel. So, if you’re an Adventist, it is time to think long and hard like our friend

Felix was willing to do. And if you’re a prayer warrior in the audience, be praying for this guy and his family as they’re waring with these and wrestling with these thoughts. Hearing the word of God. Remember, the word of God is what goes forth. It’s the power of God to salvation for all that believe. How will they hear without somebody telling them? It’s the word of God that does this. So pray that this young man would continue or maybe he’s older than I am. Pray that he would continue to seek the truth. That the spirit would compel him and prick his

Heart and his conscience and draw him to himself. That he would see the errors and folly of this and that he would come to know the truth. That he would find the the truth of the gospel. That he could rest and have peace in knowing, oh man, it’s just not having to twist the Bible to fit with the great controversy theme. Not having to deal with all these contradictions and then constantly worrying, am I ready? Have I done this? Folks, you can be ready today. You can be ready today. Believe the gospel. You hear the gospel. You trust in Christ, who Christ is, that he did what he said

He did. You trust. You cry out to God. Be merciful to me a sinner. God, I surrender. I put up the white flag. I accept the the person and work of Jesus. God will not turn you away. God will not turn you away. You will be given the spirit as a down payment, a promise of the inheritance. It’s done. It’s finished. It’s finished. You can rest in that and have actual peace. Ah, you don’t just then think, ah, Romans 6, now I just have a license to sin. That’s not what happens when a person’s born again and the spirit comes and indwells them. But you can have true peace today. Like

Paul said in Romans 5, “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God.” Period. That’s what we want for SDAs. Thank you for being here tonight. Hopefully, you found this enjoyable. Again, we’re going to keep doing the open mics. We’re going to start getting probably more regularly on these things and keep doing it and doing it and doing it until more SDA show up and we get more and more of people like Felix who are willing to be honest about these things. And we’re going to continue to show the SDA church does not have the gospel. Friends, it’s time to

Leave this false cult. It’s time to come to know the truth and embrace the true Christ and his gospel. So our call to you if you’re an SDA turning it back on you, come out of her, my people. Until next time, God bless.