Christian Apologist vs. SDA Scholars: The Gospel | Part 2

We read in the lesson on page 106, central to mission, God’s mission is the message. God’s message, that is the gospel. The message, the author writes, in a real sense, is the mission. The message is the mission. We must never lose sight of our special calling and mission, which is to proclaim to a lost world the hope found in the everlasting gospel, as well as to warn the world of what will one day come upon it. I just love how the author brings this out. The message is the mission. If we say we are Christians on a mission and we don’t have a message, well then we have no me,

No mission at all. The author goes on to say, “It is urgent that the gospel be proclaimed and the serious news about Satan’s strategies be exposed.” And that is exactly what the three angels messages and our mission are all about. So we are now going to be taking a deeper dive into these three angels messages which are the the last message we what we call present truth gospel present truth gospel the gospel in its present truth form to be proclaimed to the last day inhabitants of planet earth. Hey there welcome to answering adventism live. My name is Miles. Welcome whenever

And wherever you might be watching, especially if this is your first time with us, Adventist or otherwise. Sorry for the delay. Of course, it would not be a uh day of streaming if there were not some sort of tech issue, but the Lord is good and we got it figured out. Now, a couple of weeks ago, we broke the ice on responding to a couple of Adventist scholars that initiated a response to this platform. If you did not see part one, I highly recommend checking that out. The link to which is in the description box down below. There will be some things that I say tonight

That will make more sense in light of having that backstory, and we have a lot to look at tonight, so we aren’t going to be reviewing all of that. For those that may not have seen, they focused on three Adventist fundamental beliefs. The great controversy, the experience of salvation or the salvation experience, and the gift of prophecy. In part one, we discussed the great controversy, more specifically the world view and its centrality in the problems uh of seventh adventist theology. The great controversy is not just a book or fundamental belief of the movement. It

Is a world view of the 7th day Adventist. We saw how many Adventists including SDA scholarship often try and boil the great controversy down to the simple idea that there is good and evil uh a god and Satan etc. I showed how this is a caricature and that neither of these gentlemen have meaningfully engaged with what this platform has raised regarding that subject and our objections still stand. Now, it is important that we started there and I’m glad Christopher Saki and Jed Lake did because like we looked at in Herbert Douglas’s December 2000 Ministry

Magazine article, the great controversy worldview is what defines everything in Adventism. Everything he said, righteousness, gospel, salvation, judgment, everything, it is all filtered through this extra biblical paradigm that the SDA church claims they did not discover but was given to them, namely by God through Ellen White. In part two, we will now transition to fundamental belief number 10, the salvation experience, and more specifically what the gospel is. We are going to start just like we did last time. I will begin by steelmanning the SDA position regarding the objections

That this platform has raised. That way those are made crystal clear. I will be utilizing primary source documentation to do so. Then we will examine what the gospel actually is in comparison. I will preface by saying this is going to be long. I always say this because we will inevitably get people pointing this out. Yes, friend. This is heavyweight work and it requires rigor, focus and diligence. And in order to clearly highlight the problems, we must examine more deeply than sound bites and proof texts. So with that in mind, let’s begin. I want to remind everyone of a

Statement made by 7th avenist theologian Herbert Douglas that we looked at in part one. Notice he says quote speaking about the great controversy worldview he writes how we understand this core theme directly affects how we grasp the intent of the biblical writers when they used words such as righteousness, salvation, gospel, etc. The great controversy theme helps us to work our way through centuries of theological confusion over the meaning of such realities as justification, sanctification, atonement, obedience, and works. Without the great controversy theme, all would

Remain divided over such subjects as the importance of the Old Testament sanctuary service and the New Testament view of Christ as our high priest mediator, the meaning of faith and grace, the place of obedience in relation to legalism, why Jesus came the first time, and why he came the way he did and when he will return. Close quote. So remember this tonight. Dr. Douglas was so kind to serve this up uh this gold on a silver platter where he shoots it straight. The great controversy worldview directly affects how the SDA church defines salvation, gospel, justification,

Obedience, works, atonement, why Jesus came the first time, why he came the way he did, and so on. You’ll recall that in that same paper, he says that the great controversy theme is the central governing theme of SDA theology. This is why Dr. like you’re going to need to go beyond just using Christian language without explaining more fully what you guys mean by the words. We scale the language barrier here and we know what you mean by these words because I know the great controversy worldview very well. I’ve not just studied it, but I lived it. I had it.

But also coming downstream from the great controversy worldview is the belief that the SDA church has a unique mission and message that only they have a present truth gospel. Like we heard from my friend Aaron Cruz there at the beginning. This present truth message is branded as the everlasting gospel and it is a life ordeath message for those who hear it. So first notice fundamental belief number 12 the church. In part it says quote the church is the community of believers who confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior in continuity with the people of

God in Old Testament times. We are called out from the world and we join together for worship, for fellowship, for instruction in the word, for the celebration of the Lord’s supper, for service to humanity and for the worldwide proclamation of the gospel. The church derives its authority from Christ who is the incarnate word revealed in the scriptures. The church is God’s family adopted by him as children. Its members live on the basis of the new covenant. Close quote. So we get lots of Christianes here and modeling uh uh uh after the uh historic Protestant

Confessions. They start by defining the church as those who are called out from the world and joined together for worship. Well, who is doing that with the SDAs? Not the Christian church. The Christian church does not gather with the SDAs to worship. We corporately universally gather on the first day. Are they doing that with us? Of course not. They don’t consider our worship valid. It’s apostate, pagan, Roman, Catholic, and origin etc. The belief also says the church is united in what? the worldwide proclamation of the gospel by which they mean their present truth only for a

Special people at the end of time gospel that they and only they have. So the Christian church is not united with them on this either. The point being the church in Adventism is the SDA church exclusively and they are marked by having their own unique mission and message that no one else has. Which is why fundamental belief number 13 regarding the remnant is connected to this and must also be examined. Notice, quote, “The universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ, but in the last days, a time of widespread apostasy, a remnant has been

Called out to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.” This remnant announces the arrival of the judgment hour, proclaims salvation through Christ, and heralds the approach of his second advent. This proclamation is symbolized by the three angels of Revelation 14. It coincides with the work of judgment in heaven and results in a work of repentance and reform on earth. Every believer is called to have a personal part in this worldwide witness. Close quote. Ah, so the universal church is indeed composed of all those who truly believe in Christ. But

In these last days, there’s widespread apostasy. So the true church is a remnant of people called out of all of that. Aka the universal church is Babylon. The remnant, the true church is the SDAs. They are the ones supposedly keeping the commandments of God in accordance with Revelation 12. They’re the ones heralding the arrival of the judgment hour, aka the investigative judgment. And here we see the insertion of their worldview, their worldwide proclamation and witness, which is to take their unique message to the world. The church then is the body of people supposedly heralding

This special end times message. Now, on their website, you can click into each fundamental belief and read a little further explanation, which is essentially information from the Adventist Believe fundamental beliefs book. So, let’s keep fleshing this out. Under fundamental belief number 13, the remnant on their website under the heading titled the end times remnant and who will be a part of it. Pay very close attention. Quote, “Then I heard,” so they quote from scripture here, Revelation 18:4-5. Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, Babylon, my

People, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues, for her sins are heaped high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.” Those who do not come out of the wickedness of the world will be subject to the same fate as Satan, utter destruction. God refuses to let sin go on forever, and those who hold on to sin will have to account for their deeds. 2 Corinthians 5:10. But God’s remnant are not just supposed to hide in holes as they separate themselves from the world. God has a job for his people to do. A message they will deliver. For many people, this

Message will make the difference between eternal life with God and the permanent second death. All who hear it, how many? All who hear it will have to make a single vital decision. Either to follow God or side with Satan. and share his faith.” Close quote. So, Christians are lumped in with the wicked world. As we have looked at numerous times, part of the SDM message and mission includes the call to leave your current church and join them. Otherwise, you will experience the same fate as Satan, utter destruction. You are in uh disobedience according to them because they keep and

Observe Saturday Sabbath and Christians do not. But like we heard from Dr. O last week and uh previously, Sabbath isn’t enough. You have to have all of the three angels messages and the spirit of prophecy in Ellen White’s writings, which is entirely consistent with what is being put forth here. So remember that next time he gets labeled as a fringe cook, whatever. After you hear the SDA church’s special present truth message, you have a decision to make. And this is a matter of eternal life or eternal damnation. Now notice the November 29, 1934 issue

Of the Review and Herald, which lays out what the everlasting gospel supposedly is. Quote, “This movement with which we are connected stands for certain great fundamental truths. the existence of God, the inspiration of the Holy Scriptures, salvation alone through the vicarious sacrifice of the Lord Jesus, repentance, regeneration, and the gift of righteousness by faith, the work of the Holy Spirit, the immutability of God’s law, the binding claims of the Bible Sabbath, the priestly ministry of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary, the investigative judgment now going on, the

Soon coming of Christ to take his children home, the doctrine of spiritual gifts, the manifestation of the gift of prophecy in the remnant church, life only in Christ, Christian temperance, and other leading important Bible doctrines. These great truths constitute the everlasting gospel message for this time. Close quote. All right. So, when the SDA church uses the term everlasting gospel, it is referring to their entire framework of theology. All of their theology is nestled underneath this term. Understand this. And it’s because all of the things

Listed play a role in their understanding of salvation. They aren’t just doctrinal positions. They have direct correlation in this system to a person’s salvation. Now notice the same publication May 5th, 1932, two years prior. Quote, “The very fact that this prophecy of the three angels messages covers the period between 1844 and the end of this age shows conclusively that this three-fold message is God’s special message for us at this very hour. Just as surely as we are living between 1844 and the coming of Christ, just so surely we may know or may we know that this

Three-fold message of Revelation 14 6-12 is God’s present truth for this present time.” The time for this message is very definitively fixed to the present generation. He who will receive this prophecy as given by Jesus Christ may be just as sure that this is Christ’s special message for us today as if Jesus were to appear in person and speak this three-fold proclamation with an audible voice. Close quote. Their present truth message is unique to 1844 onward. Yeah, that isn’t a very fact and this is part of the problem. But it continues in harmony with this idea that this

Message is limited to the period between 1844 and the end. We find that no one prior to 1844 had ever claimed to have given this three-fold message. Neither Luther nor Calvin, nor Knox, Wesley, Alexander Campbell, or any of the other great lights of those times set up this claim that they were doing this predicated work or sorry predicted work of Revelation 14:6-12. If this work had been done by any of them, they would surely have known it. This prophecy of Revelation 14 6-14 does not and cannot refer to any proclamation of the gospel in the days of the apostles,

The early church fathers, or the reformers of the 16th, 17th, or 18th century. It is strictly a last day message applicable to those who live just before the return of Christ. Close quote. So, it was not preached by the apostles. No one prior to 1844 was heralding this life or death message. Yet, at the same time, they’ll try and tell us that they’re the restoration of apostolic Christianity, even though the the apostles were not preaching the everlasting gospel. But now, let’s look at another write up from Herbert Douglas. Again, thank you, Dr. Douglas, even though you’ve passed.

His 2001 paper titled, “What is the everlasting gospel?” where he is going to go deeper than the Review and Herald articles did. The link to this is in the description box for those who want to follow along. First notice he says quote John the revelator saw that sometime before the end of the world before Jesus returned a movement would arise having the everlast everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth to every nation tribe tongue and people saying with a loud voice fear God and give glory to him for the hour of his judgment has

Come. Revelation 14:6 and 7. Those who respond to this gospel are described in verse 12 as those that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. This everlasting gospel focuses on one God to whom worship and obedience are due and on two a people who give glory to him during the time of his judgment. Why is this emphasis on the everlasting gospel so timely, so important, so necessary? Apparently, there was something about the gospel that had been muted or muddled for some time before the events seen in Revelation 14, requiring this special heavenly inter intervention to

Set matters right, especially at this foretold time of his judgment. Close quote. But perfectly in line with what the reviewing herald said. Apparently, there was something about the gospel that had been muted sometime before the events of Revelation 14 and needed to be restored by an end times group. There are so many errant assumptions here. The assumption of 1844 being the start of the last days despite Hebrews 1, the author saying they were in the last days. The assumption that John had a great controversy worldview. The assumption that John has in focus what the SDA

Church does and so many others. But he continues, “A brief or overview of church history for the past 2,000 years highlights the remarkable confusion regarding the gospel that has existed since apostolic days. Where would one go during the Protestant Reformation to find the fullness of the everlasting gospel? With whom should we agree, Luther or Calvin or Zwingley, the Anabaptists or the papacy? When it comes to what is involved in the plan of salvation in the 19th century? Would we agree with Presbyterians or Methodists or Baptists? Close quote. So, notice 2,000 years of

Church history highlights confusion regarding the gospel Jesus Christ gave to the apostles. There’s the assumption that the gospel disappeared and couldn’t be found in the 16th century. And this is because, as we will see momentarily, Dr. Douglas, like Adventists do, distinguishes between the gospel and the everlasting gospel. The assumption being that the gospel fell away and the reformers heralded something that was lost since the time of the apostles. This is their restorationism shining through. But no, this is not what the reformers were doing. The reformers did not believe

That Rome didn’t possess the gospel, but that the gospel became crowded out and less central due to doctrinal accretions that crept in over time. Not that it was gone and couldn’t be found anywhere. It was universal. They also didn’t distinguish between the gospel and the everlasting gospel as two different things. But even then, he says during the reformation, you couldn’t find the fullness of the everlasting gospel. Again, assuming Revelation 14 is talking about some special end times message relegated to a special group of people in the end that would restore it.

We will explore why this is biblically problematic in a minute, but also notice the assumption that Presbyterians and Baptists, for example, have different gospels. No, we disagree on certain aspects of theology, such as how the local church should be governed, but that’s not a different gospel. Herb is assuming everlasting gospel is referring to an entire system of theology here. And since the Baptist system of theology isn’t identical to Presbyterians, well, that means they have different gospels. Now, SDA theologians beg the question by assuming their understanding and then

Project that onto everyone else. Presbyterians, Baptists, Lutheran, etc. are all united on taking the same gospel of the same Jesus to the lost world. We have the same mission and message. Which is why when I was out active in street evangelism for a number of years, I was out there with Baptist, a Pentecostal guy, and a a Presbyterian and a non-denomination and two non-denominational people. We were all sharing the same gospel of the same Christ. We disagree on secondary doctrinal matters, but not foundational ones. And that’s key. But he continues,

“Most Protestants and Catholics would agree that Jesus died for our sins. But this common agreement in itself did not and does not seem to spell out a common understanding of the gospel. If the gospel includes more than telling the story of Christ’s death, what is that something more? And why was an end times correction needed in order for God to get his final message across to seekers of truth before Jesus returns?” The question seems to stare us in the face. What is so helpful, so unambiguous about this everlasting gospel that it tells the truth about God and prepares a

People for his coming? Close quote. So notice, if the gospel includes more than the telling of the story of Christ’s death, what is that something more? Well, for starters, who’s saying the gospel is only about Christ’s death? I know not a single person, Roman, Catholic, Protestant or otherwise, that says the gospels that Jesus died. But this is supposed to prove an end times correction was needed in order for God to get his final message across. And what is that final message? It’s this everlasting gospel which supposedly is the truth about God and how to be

Prepared for his coming. Now, we’ve looked at this a number of times as well, and it’s been a central objection that I’ve raised by this phrase, a prepared people and its variations, victory, a victorious people, these sorts of things. They mean sinless perfectionism. To be prepared for Jesus’s return in Adventism is to be adhering to the SDA message and getting to a condition identical to Jesus. That is what your second probation right now is for. We will talk about that a lot more later. But probation’s going to be closing soon, so you need to get busy. Remember

Ellen’s Angel in 1951 when Jesus was going to return June n uh uh 1851 in in June, they had less than about six months. He was going to come in October of 1851. Hurry, hurry, hurry, get busy, get busy. Uh get busy, get ready, get ready, get ready. The angel told her. All those people who had just heard the third angel’s message, they had a lot of work to do. If you don’t accept and hear their life or death message, you won’t be prepared for the second coming. But he continues, “This leads to a crucial question. Is the gospel, the good news, primarily

Forgiveness, pardon, or is there more?” One of the several ways of defining the everlasting gospel would be to ask three questions. Why did Jesus die? Why did he come to earth? and what is the purpose or goal of the gospel? Close quote. And that’s the crux of it. So, what was one of my central objections from part one that was never addressed? What the SDA church states is the reason for why Jesus came and had to die. Like Dr. Douglas said in Ministry magazine, “The great controversy worldview informs why Jesus came and what the purpose of the gospel is.” This

Information is also a part of this everlasting gospel. And this is why I’m glad that Dr. Lake and and Christopher Sernaki started with the great controversy because the gospel is the good news about the person and work of Jesus. Who he who he is, why did he come, and what did he accomplish? the person and work of Christ. So yes, these are very central questions. Dr. Douglas, like we saw in part one, according to the great controversy in SDA’s everlasting gospel, the reason Jesus came and died was because prior to the creation of the earth, Jesus was exalted

To be made equal with the father. This led to Lucifer being jealous and trying to assume authority that devolved onto Christ alone. With this rebellion came the accusation that God’s law, the Ten Commandments, his character, the transcript of his character, is not fair. It can’t be kept and needed to be changed. This led to a war breaking out in heaven. A great controversy between Christ and his angels against Satan and his angels. Satan and his angels were then banished to the earth where Satan then tempted man and man fell into sin. Jesus then proposed a plan to the father

That he had to plead three times before he accepted it. And this plan included that Jesus would incarnate to ransom fallen man, taking upon himself the punishment they were due, death, vindicating the law, showing that it can’t be changed, keeping that law perfectly in order to silence Satan’s accusations in the controversy, which ultimately vindicates God and his law and demonstrates that the law is immutable and man can keep it with Jesus’s help. Those that do this can also silence Satan’s accusations, siding with Jesus in the great controversy and vindicate

God’s character. That’s what Herb Douglas means by the goal of the gospel, which he also stated in his Ministry magazine article. The goal of the gospel in Adventism is the vindication of God’s character from Satan’s accusations. This is why I’m constantly hammering this. This is not in the Bible. You will not find that anywhere in the Bible. You will find that Satan is the accuser. And then they read all sorts of stuff into that. But nothing about this premortal existence. This whole thing though centers around God supposedly being on trial and he

Needs your help, the creature, to vindicate him from the accusations of another creature, the devil. But that is not what the Bible teaches, folks, about why Jesus came and died or what the goal of the gospel is. And this is nowhere found in the Bible, like I said. And Dr. Douglas admits that as well because he said that they were given this paradigm from God through Ellen White. It was not discovered. They were not studying the Bible and found all this stuff in the Bible and oh, it’s just no one else saw this. No, no, they were given. He said,

“This is a totally foreign concept and worldview to the Bible that’s then brought to the text, read into the story by reading snippets of entire passages from all over the Bible, and latching on to general terminology like that there was war in heaven.” Yet, as Herb Douglas admits, this is central to the SDA church’s special end times only they have it gospel message. He continues under the section the purpose of the gospel. Quote, the purpose of the gospel is to make plain why Jesus came and why he died. The everlasting gospel in the end times restores the New Testament gospel

In its wholeness, in its integrity. It explains God’s plan to save men and women in such a way that their presence in the new earth would not jeopardize again the well-being and security of the universe. Close quote. So catch that. I have regularly stated that they claim that part of the gospel is that you have to demonstrate while on probation that you can be trusted in the new earth to not let sin enter. which is precisely what Ellen White claimed. That’s all he’s reiterating here. God has to see that you can be trusted to not jeopardize the universe

With sin like Lucifer did. They want to tell us they believe in the God of scripture who declares the end from the beginning, knows all things, etc. God’s omniscience has always been the thorn in the side of this movement. But it would do them well to read Hebrews 12 and why Christ’s kingdom is an unshakable one. Spoiler alert, it’s not because God conducted a seven-step sanctuary program to vindicate himself and see who can and cannot be trusted while on probation. But notice his dichotomy between gospel and the everlasting gospel. He continues by expounding upon this

Dichotomy. Quote, “Thus the gospel is not limited to the good news of his pardon and forgiveness. It presents the ellipse of truth that reveals the integrity of God’s grace as including his forgiveness and his power to transform. This gospel ellipse is revealed beautifully in the book of Hebrews as mercy and grace to help. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. John expressed the same good news as forgiveness and cleansing. If we confess our sins, he’s faithful and just to

Forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9, Paul saying, “For I’m not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it’s the power of God to salvation, for everyone who believes has faith.” Romans 1:16. The everlasting gospel adds much more to limited gospels that focus only on one half of the gospel ellipse. Close quote. So, lots of word association fallacy going on here with words like cleansing and forgiveness. No, John the Apostle did not have a great controversy worldview. Mr. Douglas already admitted in 2000, a year before this paper, that

This whole schema is unique to them. So citing random proof texts that use words that are loaded in SDA theology to try and port all their, you know, extra stuff into the Bible isn’t going to work. None of these verses cited supported anything from this pre-earth origin controversy that centers around God the Father having to vindicate himself from Satan. This is also insight into why so many SDAs think if you disagree with them, you don’t believe God changes people. This could not be further from the truth. I’m constantly talking about new creation, being made a new creature, the

Necessity to be born again, regeneration, union with Christ. Remember, remember, remember, verily, verily, verily. This platform’s objection around obedience and Adventism has been their improper categorization of obedience, making it something it’s not. And this is critical. It’s not a small issue. In SDA theology, obedience functions as a barometer for your salvation. Your demonstrated perfect obedience is what vindicates God, silences Satan, demonstrates you can be trusted in the new earth, and you have to get to a sinlessly perfect condition to do that

And be found worthy of eternal life. And no, disagreeing with that worksbased mess is is not then disparaging obedience outright. It’s recognizing that obedience is the fruit of already having eternal life and being changed. But people have good days and bad days. Like Romans 7 clearly articulates, part of the problem is they don’t have a a a full orbed view of sin. It’s typically way too low such that they think, “Oh yeah, I’m but no, the new man, the inner man that’s regenerated still wars with the old flesh that’s yet to be glorified.” Yes, even Adventists, they’re not immune

From being fallen human beings like the rest of us. But notice the tail end. He cites Romans 1:16, something I’m constantly mentioning in this discussion. The gospel is the power of God to salvation for all that believe it. But then Dr. Douglas states that the everlasting gospel adds much more to limited gospels which only focus on half of the gospel ellipse. No s see the problem. There’s not full and half gospel. Galatians 1 is clear like we’re going to see without question. A 5-year-old could grasp it. There’s only one gospel. Period. Not a full gospel and a half gospel and

A part gospel and a limited whatever you want to call it. But very clearly by this standard, the apostles had a limited gospel because they didn’t have this full ellipse everlasting gospel that’s uniquely for the end times. But make sure you catch that. This everlasting gospel is the power of God to salvation for all that believe it. That’s defined as their entire system of theology. This is why I will often ask Adventists, “Do I have to accept the health message to be saved?” And they’ll often say, “Huh? What? No.” Well, Ellen White said, “The health

Message is a part of the third angel’s message, which is a part of this everlasting gospel. It’s a life ordeath issue.” And Herb Douglas says, “The everlasting gospel is the power of God to salvation for all that what? Believe it.” So yes, the logical conclusion is that believing the Adventist system of theology is how one is saved. But he continues and the first part of the quote is him citing Christ Ellen White’s Christ object lessons. Quote, “The religion of Christ means more than the forgiveness of sins. It means taking away our sins and filling the vacuum

With the graces of the Holy Spirit. It means a heart emptied of self. The glory, the fullness, the completeness of the gospel plan is fulfilled in the life.” Notice Herb Douglas has all these ellipses in there. And you’re not going to get SDA saying, “Oh, you you you left stuff out. You’re twisting it.” Just an observation there. So, listening again to Revelation 14, the everlasting gospel will get a fair and full hearing in the end times. Limited gospels that ridicule adherence to God’s expressed will, aka the Ten Commandments, as being outside of the

Gospel will appear inadequate beside the clear proclamation of the everlasting gospel. Limited gospels that cry legalism at any attempt to embrace faithful obedience will be seen as contrary to the message of New Testament grace. Close quote. So once again, the everlasting gospel is contrasted over and against what Christians believe, which they label as a limited gospel. And it’s all at the behest of the straw man that Christians are against obedience. He says that the SDA church’s message will go to the entire world like we saw in the in in the fundamental beliefs.

This everlasting gospel is what’s going to all tribes, tongues, peoples, and nations. Not what the Christian church is taking. But he says the SDA church’s message will go to the entire world and it will get a fair hearing in the end times, showing that limited gospels that ridicule obedience to the ten commandments as not being a part of the gospel will be seen as inadequate in light of this everlasting message they have, which highlights another one of my central objections. The SDA church does not understand the law gospel distinction. We looked at this last week regarding

Randy Ski and here Herb Douglas showcases this for us once again. If you don’t think that the law plays a role in how a person is saved, you have a limited gospel according to him. Which is why it’s silly for them to try and claim that they don’t teach obedience keeps a person saved and in God’s graces. They do. They are covenantal nomists. You are in by faith kept by your works. The obedience that matters when it comes to salvation though is Jesus’s perfect active and passive obedience. Something else I talked about last week. It is Jesus’s perfect obedience that saves.

Zero mention of that here. Not his plus yours if you get to a good enough state. News flash, you aren’t. And Christians do not seek to obey God to remain in his good graces. They seek to obey because they’ve been changed and have new desires. But the Christian life is full of seasons, folks. For anyone that’s been a Christian for 20 years, 30 years, sit down and talk to people who’ve been Christians for a long time. Yeah, the Christian life has seasons. It’s a journey. But that’s the issue. Not obedience generally speaking, but the claim that obedience to God maintains one’s

Righteous standing before him. This is a mixing of law and gospel, which results in a false gospel. And it’s all coming downstream from the great controversy worldview, which is why the two cannot be separated. So to recap, thus far, the SDA church teaches that they are God’s church. They possess the fullness of the gospel restored, and it is a life ordeath message. They’re on a unique mission from God to take this special message to the world, calling everyone, including and primarily Christians, out of their churches, which are apostates. Supposedly, the Adventist gospel message

Is their entire framework and system of theology, including the 7th day Sabbath, the health message, conditional immortality, young earth creationism, the spirit of prophecy, and the writings of LG White, sinless perfectionism, aka of prepared people, and countless other things. That’s what will have you prepared for Jesus’ return. And it could happen at any moment. So, chop chop. Once you hear this message, you then have a choice to make. Join them and get on the pathway to salvation like Ellen White’s first vision, the path vision, and being prepared for Jesus’s return,

Or experience the same fate that Satan will, utter destruction. This everlasting gospel message is primarily founded on the objections I raised back in part one regarding who Jesus is, why he came, and why he had to die. As Herb Douglas rightly admits, is the central crux of all of this. And it is because the gospel is the person and work of Jesus. Why did he come? What did he come to accomplish? That has to do with the work of Christ. Now notice Galatians 1 6-12. I’m astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a

Different gospel. Not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel or three angels from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preach to you, let him be accursed. As we’ve said before, so now I say again, if anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one that you received, let him be damned. For I’m now for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a

Servant of Christ. For I’d have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man’s gospel. For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ. And thus, the reading of God’s holy word. There is only one gospel, not two, not three, not a limited one, and a full one. You either have it or you don’t. And like Herb recognized in Romans 1:16, the gospel is the power of God to salvation for all that believe it, which means whatever that message is, you have to believe it to be saved.

Anyone preaching a different gospel than this one is under a curse from God, a double curse. Paul says it again, anathema. Strongest way that Paul could say, you’re damned. You’re lost. These Judaizers, Judaizers Paul was speaking about only added one thing to the gospel, circumcision. They affirmed that Jesus came, died, buried, resurrected, as descended, etc. But they said if you wanted to be right with God, it wasn’t strictly on the basis of Christ’s work alone. But you also had to be circumcised. It was Christ’s work plus circumcision. Does

The Bible talk about circumcision? Is there a theology around circumcision? Of course. It’s not the gospel, though. Just because it’s theological doesn’t make it the gospel. And this is precisely what the SDA church has done, but multiffold. They’ve added all sorts of doctrines to the gospel that aren’t. If you want to come to the true God, you have to do so through the 7th day Sabbath. But Paul continues by saying that the true gospel came from Jesus Christ himself and was given to the apostles. It was never lost and needed to be restored. It’s the means by which God’s been

Building his church from the beginning. The gospel goes out, transforms hearts. God uses it to regenerate a person, seals them with the Holy Spirit, makes them a new creature in Christ, and they’re set free to do good works that are pleasing in his sight as stewards of his kingdom that is advancing and growing every day and has been since Christ established his church. Christ the head ruling and reigning with all authority on his throne as a prophet, priest, and king. The everlasting gospel in Revelation 14 is not some other gospel different from

What the apostles preached and received from Jesus. Just because you the word everlasting is there is not like, oh, now it’s some everlasting gospel. Yeah, it’s the same gospel. There’s only one. Jesus didn’t give the apostles the gospel and then give a cursed one to John in Revelation that’s talking about some special end times more full gospel. And this is the catch 22. Either the SDA church has a different gospel than what the apostles preached as their source document plainly stated it was never this everlasting gospel was never preached by the apostles which

Means they have a false cursed gospel according to Galatians 1. Or they have to try and claim that their everlasting gospel was indeed preached by the apostles but disappeared and needed restored by them. Which would mean the review and herald was wrong. And it isn’t a special unique gospel only for the end times. Which would also mean that while this gospel had disappeared, people were not being saved because the gospel is the power of God to salvation for all that believe it. It would mean that God wasn’t building his church the entire time this gospel was lost.

The entire problem on this stems from the dichotomy between the gospel and the everlasting gospel. A distinction they have to have for this entire framework to stay standing. You can’t have it both ways. So what is the gospel? Well, as Dr. Douglas alluded to, the true gospel is the good news about the person and work of Jesus and the message of forgiveness of sins because of his person and work. Who Jesus is, that’s his person. Who Who is Is he just a prophet? is he just a man? These sorts of things and what Jesus did and accomplished his work. It’s why you can’t be off on this.

This is foundational to the faith. You don’t get to come along in the 19th century and just say, “Oh, we have this special insight as to why Jesus really came.” Yeah. No, it it doesn’t work that way. But notice Paul back to Bible basics. 1 Corinthians 15. Then we’ll look at Ephesians 1. 1 Corinthians 15 1-8. Now I’d remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the world, uh, to the word I preached to you, hold fast unless you believed in vain. For I

Delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures, and that he appeared to Cphus, then to the 12. Then he appeared to more than 500 brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, last of all as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. Thus the reading of God’s holy word. So the gospel that Paul preached to the

Churches at Corenth is the same gospel he mentions in Galatians 1. And here he says, “It is this gospel that saves. So hold fast to what he preached just like he told the churches in Galatia. Don’t pivot off of what we gave you. Nothing about there being some future present truth more full gospel. That’s not what the apostles were preaching. No. Hold fast to what they deposited, which is what we have in scripture today. That’s the apostolic deposit. The work of Christ on behalf of sinners. That Jesus Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures. He was

Buried and raised on the third day which he also foretold in the scriptures. Now as it pertains to why Jesus came, why he had to die, this is expounded upon elsewhere all throughout the scriptures, both old and new testaments. But the point being the gospel is the message of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ for the forgiveness of sins. That is the power of God to salvation. This is what the apostles were sent out by Christ after the resurrection to preach. One example from Luke 24:44-48. Then he Jesus said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I w

While I was still with you that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and the psalms must be fulfilled.” Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures and said to them, “Thus it is written that the Christ should suffer on the third day or should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations beginning from Jerusalem.” You are witnesses of these things. Thus the reading of God’s holy word. nothing about Jesus coming to silence

Accusations from Satan that started before the earth was created and exposing Satan’s tactics and schemes with all this extra information that all of humanity’s caught in a great controversy between Jesus and Satan. So God needs you to help vindicate his character before the watching universe by coming to Jesus who can enable you to keep the law and demonstrate that you’re safe to save and can be trusted in heaven to not let sin enter again yada yada. No, it was prophesied that the Messiah would come as the suffering servant, the blemish-free antityypical

Passover lamb that would bear the sins of the world, die, be buried, and rise on the third day for the justification of his people to then ascend back to his rightful estate to then intercede on their behalf before the Father, presenting his once-for-all sacrifice after having accomplished the redemption of all things. The disciples were told by Christ to take this and the message of repentance for the forgiveness of sins to all nations, not the unique SDA message. Now, notice what Paul says in Ephesians 1 11-14, which fits like a glove with what we just saw, but it also tells us

The goal of the gospel. In him we have obtained an inheritance, have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will. Not some things, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. ah being in Christ obtaining the inheritance praise of his glory. Remember that in him you also when you heard the word of truth. What is that? the gospel of your salvation and believed in him were sealed with Adventists with with not just by with sealed with the promised

Holy Spirit who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it to the praise of his glory. Thus the reading of God’s holy word. The apostles were tasked with taking the message of the death, burial, and resurrection and repentance for the forgiveness of sins to the world. When a person hears this message, which is the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation, believes that gospel, they’re sealed with the Holy Spirit, who is a down payment, a guarantee of the inheritance that a person acquires by being in Christ. It’s like the earnest

Money. It is a down payment from God that seals the person unto the day of redemption. He goes on to say in chapter 4. All this talk of in him is language around union with Christ. This is central to the gospel. Union with Christ is everything. And it’s not abiding in Christ like the SDA church, the terminology they try to borrow from scripture, which means something totally different. When a person is born again, they’re united to Christ. They’re sealed, made a new creature in Christ, freed from the condemnation of sin, promised resurrection, promised that God

Remembers their sins no more, and countless other glorious promises that the New Testament lays out regarding those who are united to him. And this is all to the praise of God’s glory. That’s the goal of the gospel, friends, not God vindicating himself against Satan in a cosmic fairy tale. The goal of the gospel is the glory of God demonstrated because God wants to do it. Not because he had to come up with a plan to respond to Satan, a creature who threw him for a loop with his rebellion. So, he had to hold a council meeting to figure out a plan after the fact after man falls. And

No, this is plan A. God’s plan from eternity past, the glorification of himself through the gracious salvation of some and the just condemnation of others. Yes, the SDA church does not like this, but that’s what scripture teaches. God is even glorified in the just execution and condemnation against the wicked because God’s not only gracious, merciful, and loving. He’s also just and holy and righteous and angry with the wicked. This, in my opinion, is part of the problem. I don’t think SDAs actually understand you deserve condemnation. You are deserving of that. You’re not

Deserving of grace. You’re not deserving a chance of No, but the go but the gospel is very simple. The Adventist Church can can poo poo all they want on this and call it a limited gospel all they want. Doesn’t change the facts. That’s the gospel. The good news about the person and work of Jesus Christ. And it’s not some special message that only Baptists have or Presbyterians or Anglicans or Lutherans, whatever. It’s not every jot and tit of theology like they claim regarding their everlasting gospel. No, the death, burial, resurrection of Christ for the

Forgiveness of sins is the everlasting gospel that goes to all tribes, tongues, peoples, and nations. And of course, there’s more to theology than just the person and work of Christ. But those things are not the power of God to salvation for all that believe them. You can believe all of the SDA church’s everlasting gospel doctrines and still end up in hell. Believing young earth creationism will not save you. Believing you’re the remnant will not save you. Seventh day Sabbath will not save you because none of that’s the gospel. Now, there are many more problems than

This, but these have been my primary ones as it pertains to the false gospel of Adventism. One, the SDA church falsely distinguishes between the gospel and the everlasting gospel, which results in two gospels despite scripture saying there’s only one and any other is cursed by God. Two, the SDA church, like the Judaizers, calls things the gospel that are not the gospel. Three, the Bible does not teach that the good news, the gospel, is that Jesus came to silence accusations from Satan, demonstrating the law can be kept, vindicating God’s character from Satan’s

Charges and evidencing that you can too with Jesus’s help. Now, we primarily looked at this in depth in part one, but Dr. Douglas mentioned it in his paper under the section titled the purpose of the gospel. This is the central aspect of their unique message. It isn’t just that they label doctrine as the gospel that isn’t like the Judaizers, but that they have an entirely different framework for why Jesus came, what he came to do, which distorts both the person and work of Christ. And then four, a person in SDA theology does not have peace with God strictly on

The basis of the person and work of Christ alone. You have peace with God through Christ, making something a possibility coming to him and then developing a perfectly righteous character that mirrors Christ and demonstrates you can be trusted in the new earth to not let sin enter again. This is to say your perfect obedience will be rewarded with eternal life which I will uh show my receipts on in a bit. So let me just make sure I am crystal clear here regarding these objections. The gospel in Adventism is their whole system of theology. The SDM message of good news

Specifically though is that the Adventist Jesus came to show you that the law can be kept. It cannot change. That Satan is a liar. So the Adventist Jesus kept the law perfectly to silence Satan’s accusations regarding the law and to show you the sinner that with his help, you can be empowered to keep the law, side with Jesus in the controversy, and silence Satan. Also, the goal of all of this being God’s character being vindicated from Satan. The law points you to Jesus showing your need of his help. You need a savior. And he points you back to the law by

Bearing the crucifixion marks showing that the law can be kept. Because remember this gem from Ellen White review and Herald May 28, 1901. God will test all even as he tested Adam and Eve to see whether they will be obedient. Our loyalty or disloyalty will decide our destiny. Since the fall of Adam, men in every age have excused themselves for sinning, charging God with their sin, saying that they could not keep his commandments. This is the insinuation Satan cast at God in heaven. But the plea, I cannot keep the commandments, need never be presented to

God. For before him stands the Savior, the marks of the crucifixion upon his body, a living witness that the law can be kept. It’s not that men cannot keep the law, but that they will not. Close quote. That’s how you can have peace with God. By getting to a totally sinless state of perfect lawkeeping to silence Satan and demonstrate that you can be trusted in the new earth to not let sin enter again. You’re on probation like Adam and Eve were in Eden and are being tested to see how loyal you truly are. True loyalty is demonstrated by perfect lawkeeping, especially

The truth, especially controverted, the observance of the seventh day Sabbath, which is the seal of the law. And for all the Adventists that say, “No, no, no. It’s trying your best.” No. What does she tell you? It’s not that you cannot keep the law. It’s that you will not. That is ultimately what being prepared for Jesus’s second coming is about in Adventism and where all the other stuff gets supplemented in such as the health message. Following the health message is the right arm of the Adventist gospel because Ellen White said meat, tea, and coffee etc. prevent a person from being

Able to understand and embrace the truth. It blunts their moral sensibilities. But also because in the new earth the diet will be vegetarian. So you have to demonstrate right now that you can adhere to that. All of their doctrines are what undergur and support their larger claims about why Jesus came, why he had to die, and the goal of the gospel. Which is exactly what Herb said. Those are the big three questions. Which is why they classify their entire system and framework as the everlasting gospel. It all centers around getting to a sinlessly perfect condition to silence

Satan, vindicate God, something the Bible knows nothing of. Their special end times message is not that through the perfect and finished work of Christ, you can have peace with God right now. Be sealed with the Holy Spirit, have an intercessor before the Father that will always live to intercede for you, never leaving you or forsaking you as the author and finisher of your faith. That you are seen as totally righteous in God’s sight right now on the basis of Jesus Christ. have peace with God. And in order for anything to condemn you, it would have

To be able to condemn Jesus since you are in him. No, this is disparaged as a limited gospel because you’re not saying that people’s obedience to the law maintains their right standing before God because that’s how God’s going to transform people. So then you don’t believe that God transforms people and all the other nonsense. But no, obedience does not maintain your right standing before God. But instead, you need to recognize like the father in Mark 9:23-5 who wanted his son healed from a demon and cried out, “Lord, I believe, but help my unbelief.”

He had faith, but it wasn’t unwavering and perfect because he’s a fallen creature. It’s Jesus’s perfect work, which includes his perfect obedience, which is the basis of my peace with God, not Jesus plus anything. Will obedience come as a result of being born again? Absolutely. But not as something that then supplements Jesus’s work with the ultimate deciding factor in your destiny being your efforts and doings. Now, we will look at some of my other objections as we get into listening to Dr. Lake. But understand, these have been my objections for a long time. I

Was a student of Dr. Lakes with these same objections. They’ve not changed. Let’s see if he addresses these specifics or continues doing the real vague Christian word salad thing. Okay, as with our last section, I’m going to open by quoting in full the 10th fundamental belief which reads as follows. In infinite love and mercy, God made Christ, who knew no sin to be sin for us. So that in him we might be made the righteousness of God. Led by the Holy Spirit, we sense our need, acknowledge our sinfulness, repent of our transgressions, and exercise faith

In Jesus as Savior and Lord, substitute, and example. This saving faith comes through the divine power of the word and is the gift of God’s grace. Through Christ, we are justified, adopted as God’s sons and daughters and delivered from the lordship of sin. Through the spirit, we are born again and sanctified. The spirit renews our minds, writes God’s law of love in our hearts, and we are given the power to live a holy life. Abiding in him, we become partakers of the divine nature and have the assurance of salvation now and in the judgment. So, Dr. Lake, the Bible

Warns against teaching a false gospel. And so the question is begged, does the Seventh Day Adventist Christian Church and Ellen White for that matter teach a false gospel? The key question because that issue has been raised and Adventists are are accused of teaching a false gospel. Answering Adventism is really hammering that that issue home. Uh we have a false gospel, a false Christ, and so forth. Is there a false gospel in Adventism? There are some Adventists, I believe, that teach a false gospel. Uh you’ll you’ll find pockets of legalism with an Adventism.

Have to be honest. I’ve seen it, encountered it myself, but I would argue it’s not fair to broadbrush all Adventist as legalist and teaching a false gospel. I believe that Adventism as a whole has the biblical gospel. What is the biblical gospel? What have I, as a Seventh Day Adventist professor and theologian, taught in my classes, my college classes, religion classes over the last 27 years I’ve taught at Southern Advent Adventist University? What what have I taught in terms of the gospel? What does Adventist scholarship teach about the gospel? What do

Adventist in mainstream Adventism teach about the gospel? So he says, “Does the SDA church teach a false gospel? Answering Adventism is really hammering that.” Yes, I have, and I will continue to do so until further notice. Thank you for recognizing this. But Dr. Lake, you made two fundamentally flawed assumptions here. And Adventists often fall prey to this. One is that the objection is legalism. And then if this can be dispelled, that vindicates Adventism. Dr. Lake, if you think this is the only thing that that makes your guys’ gospel false, then my suspicion is becoming

Further confirmed. I don’t think you’ve consumed much of the content on this platform. Yet, this is supposed to be a response to us because I rarely ever use the term legalism and it’s for a specific reason because I know the SDA dictionary. Legalism has taken on a specific connotation within your guys’ system that doesn’t accurately represent the objection. Just like we saw in Herb Douglas’s uh December 2000 ministry article that we looked at in part one, the term legalism is defined by the great controversy theme. Adventists use this term to try and

Silence anyone that points out that they falsely teach that obedience maintains your right standing before God. It is Christ’s work plus your obedience. No, that’s not the role of obedience. The Adventist belief, fundamental beliefs book for the fundamental belief Christopher uh just read talks of salvation being a goal. And that’s exactly correct. You guys teach the steps to Christ model of salvation, which for those that do not know is a book by Ellen White. It’s a false gospel. You guys falsely teach that a person maintains their right standing before

God on the basis of their obedience to the law. And only those that get to a perfect state of lawkeeping will be rewarded with eternal life, vindicate God’s character, and demonstrate that they’re fit for heaven and can be trusted to not let sin enter again like Satan did. It is covenantal gnomeism. You’re initially in by your faith. Oh, it’s all of grace. It’s by grace through faith. Yeah, that’s what you guys mean. It’s initially all by that. It wouldn’t be possible had Jesus not made it possible. So, you’re initially in by faith, but then you’re kept by your works of law.

Remember the term a prepared people. Notice this is just one of the many examples that we have looked at before. Quote from mind, character, and personality volume 2 page uh 564. He talking about Jesus came to demonstrate the fact that humanity allied by living faith to divinity can keep all the commandments of God. He came to make plain the immutable character of the law to declare that disobedience and transgression can never be rewarded with eternal life. He came as a man to humanity that humanity might touch humanity while divinity laid hold upon

The throne of God. Close quote. You guys teach that the Adventist Jesus came to vindicate God’s character, the Ten Commandments, from accusations made by Satan. Namely, that the Ten Commandments can’t be kept and needed changed. It’s the transcript of God’s character. All language and concepts your pioneers stole from the reformed tradition, but then filtered through the great controversy to twist them for your system because they did not mean what you guys mean when you latch on to these phrases. And this is people will know is one of my biggest pet peeves with this movement

Is they’re stealing of other people’s terms to then twist things. Then people leave Adventism and they hear something like I just saw somebody former Adventist talking about this the other day talking about the three-fold division of the law thinking the SDA church originated that. No, the SDA church didn’t originate that. They took that because they thought it would work for their system. They filtered it through the great controversy theme and then have twisted that. But then people associate it with Adventism, so they throw the baby out with the bathwater.

No, not going to happen anymore. But Jesus then supposedly incarnated to demonstrate that Satan’s accusation is false, vindicating the law and silencing the accusation as our example, which was in the fundamental belief. We were given a secondary probation like Adam was on, evidencing your guys’ mixing of law and gospel like we looked at last week. By faith, one can come to the Adventist Jesus. He’ll forgive you of your sins up to that point and then empower you to now obey the law. And as you go along and inevitably sin, you confess it to Jesus where in type, the

Sin is transferred to a building in heaven by means of an angel documenting it down in a book. The Adventist Jesus is looking over these books, cleansing the sanctuary, where when your name comes up, he’ll begin investigating your record to see if you are really genuine or not, which is typically where SDA is trying to assert. He’s simply seeing if you’re trying your best. And if you are, that’s all it’s asked of you. But no, only if you don’t look at the bigger picture and system as a whole. One must have all of their sins confessed such that they can be taken of taken care of

In this investigatory period before probation closes. Those that do get to a status of perfect lawkeeping, however, or uh Christ will vindicate God in the great controversy, demonstrating that one can keep the commands of God’s kingdom and be rewarded with eternal life. Sorry, I got a little tongue tied there. So, get that. Those that do get to a status of perfect lawkeeping, confessing all of their sins so they can be dealt with in the investigative judgment eventually getting to a point cuz before the latter rain, it’s supposed to be right at the outpouring of the latter

Rain. It’s right before the close of probation. You have to have confessed all of your sins because then it’s going to be you have to stand without a mediator, etc. But those that get to a status of perfect lawkeeping will, like Christ, he’s the example, vindicate God in the great controversy, demonstrating that one can keep the commands of God’s kingdom and be rewarded with eternal life. This is central to your guys’s entire system, Dr. Lake, not some side piece foundational to the great controversy worldview. Now, I understand a lot of ley and

Adventism are going to hear this and think, you know, and they’re going to be out of the loop, and I’m glad I can I can get you caught up to speed because yes, this is 100% what official systematic SDA theology teaches. And I challenge any SDA theologian or scholar in the world to prove otherwise. Now, just pay lip service to a bunch of Christianes hoping we don’t pop the hood on this lemon of an organization and examine at a more granular granular level. Now, eternal life is not a reward, sir. It’s a gift. This very plain from scripture, spiritual milk type stuff. Ephesians

2:8-10. For by grace you’ve been saved through faith. This is not of your uh own doing. It is the gift of God, not a result of works so that no one may boast. We get a lot of SDA double speak when it comes to this paricopy because one, it’s plainly stated that it’s a gift and a gift is not a reward. the opposite of a reward. If you’re rewarded for your obedience too, then yes, you could boast. You were better behaved than someone else. You were more upstanding than someone else. You obeyed better, etc. So, you guys can use whatever terminology you want. You can reject the

Term legalism, but it doesn’t change the facts around what’s actually being said. Because when we remove all the fluff and get down to the brass tax, yes, SDA theology is a false gospel. Jesus did not come to silence Satan in a pre-ear origin story where he was exalted to be made equal with the father. This triggered Lucifer’s jealousy leading to a conflict over the ten commandments and authority like some sort of cosmic politics. All of your guys’ theology is defined by your extra biblical great controversy worldview which distorts both the person

And work of Christ presenting a false Christ that is powerless to save because he’s an idol. He’s not real. He’s like the Mormon Jesus, Jehovah’s Witness Jesus. He’s not real. make believe. I’m not saying Adventists don’t genuinely believe Adventism, but you can genuinely be wrong. But Dr. Lake, I’d be happy to answer your question regarding mainstream Adventism. Thanks for asking. I didn’t realize that Herb Douglas, P. Gerard, Damsky, Ministry Magazine, the Review and Herald, Ellen White, The Adventist Believe, Fundamental Police Book, The Adventist Church’s website, President

Truth Magazine, The Sabbath School Quarterly, and uh virtually all of your organizations major publications and theologians weren’t mainstream Adventism. Dr. Blake, because like we just saw, that’s what my receipts and homework consist of regarding the claim that the SDA organization heralds a false Christ and gospel, not fringe leoty off in the corner somewhere. Primary source materials, not anecdotal experience, not private opinions. I know Adventists love doing this to make themselves feel better by pointing to fringe people in the movement like

Doug Bachelor who calls them the kooky cousins, but no sir. official source materials. You guys are saying this stuff all over the place. Your scholars, your theologians, your publications, your professors, your prophetists, your seminaries, your pastors. Yes, at a certain point, the scales tip. And it’s safe to say the SDA church teaches a false gospel. I’ve never once said all Adventists are lost people. In fact, I’m on record stating the exact opposite both publicly and privately. And it’s known that I tell people uh uh if you they encounter an SDA that does

Seem to believe the true gospel and true God to then ask them why are you remaining then in an organization that’s under the curse of God. We just had a gentleman reach out last week and this exact thing played out. Clearly understood the gospel and the triune God, but was at a place where leaving the SDA church was not currently feasible. So he’s going to plan accordingly. I’m on record repeatedly saying that lots of people in Adventism were duped. They don’t know the real issues. They haven’t studied the systematic representation of Adventist theology

Proper, which is what we are utilizing over here. But Dr. Lake is doing what a lot of Adventists do. They assume all critics of Adventism are the same. He does this in his book. He equates all of us as being DM canwrite parents. And so then they then they all roll with this narrative which breaks down when it comes to real world engagement outside the insulated halls of academia because I know DM can writes theology and I disagree with him on a number of issues a lot of issues actually am I apologetic in countless areas such as the Sabbath nothing like canites

But I say this to say that Lake is assuming that when I say the SDA church has a false gospel that I’m making the legalism charge and that I don’t recognize amongst individual Adventists that there’s a spectrum. He thinks that if the charge of legalism is dispelled, then that proves Adventism doesn’t have a false gospel. But no, sir, my primary objection has been that you guys have Judaized the gospel by adding things to it that aren’t it. Not that you just teach a workspace reconciliation model, which you do, but you guys mean something specific when you say

Legalism. He asked about what’s taught in the classroom. So, get that. He seems to imply that I utilize fringe anecdotal sources when raising uh uh the charge that the SDA church has a false gospel. I don’t. I’m utilizing countless primary sources. Ministry magazine, SDA theologians, Ellen White, Adventist believe book, papers from the scholars, the youth’s instructor. Yet, when it comes to Lakes’s positive case for his position, what is he appealed to? His own personal anecdotal experience. So, Dr. Like you’re telling me you don’t assign the reading of the great

Controversy, desire of ages, Christ object lessons, patriarchs and prophets, etc. in SDA University classrooms. You don’t teach from those, sir. If you’re having students read those books that put forth a false Christ who isn’t real and a false gospel that cannot save, then yes, your classroom is a victim of this happening. Sir, your classroom is not immune from a great controversy worldview. I know this because I was there. I mean, give me a break. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, man. But speaking of what you teach in your classroom, Dr. Lake, let’s listen to a

Clip from your Trinity Symposium, or rather Southern’s Trinity Symposium that you spoke at a few years back and what you had to say regarding the Adventist Heavenly Trio. Because yes, as you rightly recognized, I am very vocal that the SDA church not only has a false gospel, but a false god, which is which was evidenced back in part one, as well as plenty of other places. But let’s listen to what you yourself explain regarding the advent gods. I am Jud Lake. I’m a professor at Southern Advent University and my focus is on Ellen White studies and preaching.

Just a piggyback on uh the the Q&A. You know, when you think about tritheism, three gods, one God. To me, it’s it’s very clear in the marriage relationship. Go back to Genesis. One flesh, two individuals. One flesh, two indivi individuals. Imagine if the the husband and wife were surgically connected. You’d have some problems. Imagine the fights. But there’d be less divorce because then you’d have to have radical surgery. So how are they one flesh? They’re one in mind, in purpose, in in their characters, in their life together. One flesh, two individuals, one God,

Three individuals. They’re united in their purpose, in their character, in their mission. Just to follow up on the Q&A, Dr. Lake, unfortunately, if that’s what you’re teaching in your classroom, which it is, then yes, you are also a victim of heralding a false god, and you are reiterating the exact same thing that Jerry Moon does in his quest for a biblical trinity paper, which he credits to Ellen White being what primarily influenced the development that you just put forth. Ellen White’s heavenly trio is not the one true god. just because you guys call the Adventist gods a

Trinity. We have addressed this at great lengths elsewhere. Funeral for heresy is what it’s called. You all can go check that out um for all the sources on that. Got in Adventism, mainstream Adventism, which is where the current is the strongest, the the flow of the main church, its teaching, its scholarship, it’s its members. But then on the side, like any river, you’ve got streams, currents along the edges, and you’ve got the more conservative, ultra-conservative streams, and you’ve got the more uh liberal progressive type of streams. But then you’ve got the

Mainstream where the current is the strongest. And that’s where I’m coming from. That’s what I represent is mainstream Adventism. Of course, we all would like to say we’re in the middle. Uh but that’s what I endeavor to follow. And uh I have seen false gospels particularly in the ultra-conservative side that don’t really grasp the significance of what Christ has done. Dr. Lake, like we looked at in part one, Adventism isn’t supposed to have multiple streams. You guys supposedly have the theological God particle, the theory of everything, the mind of God. Herbert Douglas told us

It’s supposed to be the antidote to theological division. I constantly bring this up to SDAs. What a claim, folks. It’s just such a crazy claim. And then you’ll get SDAs who are ignorant of this more than likely. Why are you picking on Adventism? You your organization has made arguably the most grandiose claim in all of existence. You claim to have the theological God particle. Herbert Douglas uses Stephven Hawkings example of the God particle to say that’s the equivalent of what the great controversy theme is to all of reality. Theological division is supposed to be

The hallmark of Babylon. You guys are supposed to be distinct and separate from all that. Yet more and more we keep hearing from you guys referring to these other streams which would mean you’re not united. In fact, Ellen White claimed this unity must be present in order for your guys’ unique special message to go forth and spread. Notice

From the LG White 1888 materials, page 589 559. Quote, Jesus has prayed that his disciples all might be one as thou, Father, are in me and I in thee, that they also may be one in us, that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. It is through this unity that we are to convince the world of the mission of Christ and bear our divine credentials to the world. And the glory which thou gavest me, I have given them that they may be one even as we are one. This is what we want. This is what we are waiting for. More of the glory of Christ to lighten

Our pathway that we may go forth with that glory shining in our countenances that we may make an impression upon those with whom we shall come in contact. Close quote. It’s supposed to be your guys’ unparalleled unity that demonstrates to the world that you guys in particular are Jesus’s true disciples, that your special unique message is true, and that your organization bears divine credentials. This is the problem with this ridiculous claim that you have the mind of God, the theory of everything, the that antidote to theological division. Once again,

Outside of the insulated and airond conditioned halls of SDA academia, when you get out into the scrutiny of heat and humidity and have to try and defend such a totally insane claim, it all fizzles out. Because practically speaking, theological unity is not the hallmark of Adventism like at all. Just look at the comments of our videos, folks. That is a perfect case sample. Notice he said, “We all like to think of ourselves as the mainstream.” Yes, bingo, sir. Spot on. Which is exactly the point. Adventism is a splintered mess with every pocket thinking they’re

The true thing. They can’t agree on whether or not drinking a Pepsi is a sin, but they’ve got the theological God particle. It’s crazy the arc that this movement is on. They went from without question knowing exactly who they were. Their supposed identity as God’s united people in these last days with unique mission and message that only they have. Everyone agrees on it. All of it is the old landmarks of truth that are never to be altered to now having an identity crisis of not even being able to clearly articulate what it means to be an Adventist.

The effect that time has had on this movement is fascinating. But again, we got more of the posturing that critics of Adventism utilize fringe sources. Dr. Lake, again, you haven’t done your homework, sir. We don’t appeal to fringe pockets or personal experience on this platform. My personal experience is irrelevant. I had a great time in Adventism, actually, to be perfectly honest with you. But that’s not the baseline for answering Adventism’s critiques. It’s not because, oh, some Adventist hurt me somewhere or some, you know, these silly claims they

Make. I love Adventists. That’s why I’m doing this. If I didn’t like Adventists, I wouldn’t be doing this. I’m doing this because I like Adventist people. They’re genuine people most of the times. A lot of them have been duped. We just met a guy in our members only live stream last week. Guy named JJ shared his testimony. That’s exactly the person we’re here for. Exactly that person. Equipping more Christians to reach more JJs out there. Didn’t have his heels dug in. Was a said of his own valition. He was more of like a liberal Adventist. So, a lot of conservative

SDAs will probably cheer that on. Yeah, get him out of here. It’s shaking. Whatever. Yeah, praise God. Didn’t have his heels dug in. Came across our platform. God used it, moved mightily. He believes the truth now. Praise God. That’s who we care about. But no, it’s not the hyperconservative fringe of your movement that are that’s putting forth a false gospel. You all have a great controversy worldview. That’s why I don’t even waste my time on conservative liberal labels within Adventism. It’s irrelevant. It doesn’t change the facts. The great controversy

Is what defines the gospel for you all, sir. Like Herb Douglas said, and it’s that definition we take umbrage with, not some fringe hyperconservative some SDA somewhere. Now, he’s going to put forth what the gospel is. Pay very close attention. What is the gospel? The biblical gospel. I believe as a Seventh Day Adventist that the biblical gospel is the gospel and that is what we should believe and teach a Seventh Day Adventist. Do seventh day Adventists teach a false gospel? I would argue in general, no. Here’s how I define the gospel. The gospel is the good news of

The eternal pre-existence, incarnation, life, death, burial, resurrection, ascension, enthronement, intercession, judgment, return, and ultimate restoration of Christ for the salvation of all who believe in him and follow him. Now, I’m deriving that from scripture. Those are all the redemptive works of Christ. Those are parts of the whole scripture. talks about these parts but connects them as a whole. Christ redemptive works. The gospel really is or another way of putting it’s a story of the redemptive works of Christ. But let’s be clear the heart and center is the death,

Burial and resurrection of Christ. That is quite clear in 1 Corinthians 15 1-4 where Paul gives the essence of the gospel and the resurrection of Christ. That’s the gospel. The doing, the dying, and the rising of Christ. The gospel is Christ. It is his work for us. So his completed work on the cross, that’s the basis of my salvation. That’s the basis of justification by faith. The forensic declaration of a quiddle of pardon based on what Christ has done on the cross. It’s about forgiveness. It’s about wearing that perfect robe of righteousness that he established during his perfect

Life. Yeah. We’re going to get to that perfect robe of righteousness here in a little bit. Dr. Like if the biblical gospel is the gospel, then why did Herb Douglas distinguish between the gospel and the everlasting gospel, which your organization’s owned published source documents tell us is your guys’s entire system of theology. It’s a life ordeath message. So, you can’t just believe the gospel and not be damned because the everlasting gospel is a life ordeath message. Why are your fellow scholars on record calling the gospel a limited one whereas

You guys actually have the fullness of the gospel restored? But great, Dr. Lake. So, you admit we don’t need Adventism. We don’t need to leave our apostate Protestant church. Apostate Protestantism. Thank you, John Lomang. And come join you all, the true remnant of God, the apple of his eye, those identified as being the true worshippers of God, because you supposedly have the identifying mark of the end times, the seal of God, the seventh day Sabbath as well, but the the spirit of prophecy, the identifying mark. But of course, no, that’s not the case.

As the SDA church’s website says, the fundamental beliefs book says, the Adventist pastors that we’ve quoted over and over and over again say, and on and on and on, if someone hears your guys’ unique special end times message that only you guys have and reject it, they’ll be lost. What Dr. Lake is putting forth here is the classic Adventists just believe like other Christians idea to try and make it seem like any sort of criticisms brought against them are illinformed or invalid. when no his gospel presentation was veiled and layered with all sorts of SDA

Assumptions that were not explained. He used the Christian word salad that we saw in the the last part without really telling you what he means by them. Then tried saying we just get this from the Bible as it pertains to his gospel presentation. So he just got done telling us that he doesn’t teach a false gospel in his classroom. The mainstream Adventist River doesn’t teach a false gospel etc. This is what he said. The gospel is the gospel is the good news of the eternal pre-existence, incarnation, life, death, burial, and resurrection, ascension, enthronement, intercession,

Judgment, return, and ultimate restoration of Christ for the salvation of all who believe in him and follow him. Just as an interesting note, notice there’s nothing here about the the need to be born again, being born dead in sins and trespasses. Just an interesting uh interesting uh observation there. Dr. Lake, this was a bulleted list of doctrinal points, all of which I agree with on the surface, just like you did back in part one regarding the great controversy. But here we are once again doing the Christian word salad thing to try and put out good optics. That’s what

This is ultimately about. He’s trying to make it appear like who could possibly object to what I just said. Yeah, because words don’t matter, right, Dr. Lake? Words don’t matter. You can just as long as you say all the right words, it doesn’t matter, right? No, of course not. Because the great controversy theme Herb Douglas told us defines all the words. So apparently the definitions do matter. But since I know what you undergur all of those terms with, Dr. Lake, thank you for demonstrating that my objections are spoton and valid. Because what you mean by the single word

Judgment is one of your guys’s most convoluted, complex doctrines that 95% of 7th Adventists can’t even articulate in any meaningful or cogent way. And that’s the investigative judgment on top of the millennial reign judgment and the executive postmillennial judgment. All that comes uh uh with that and is nestled underneath that single term judgment which is part of your guys’s gospel message. Not a theological doctrine. They’re part of the gospel. And this is what we have coined another SDA catch22. I’ve talked about this I don’t know how many times. The apostles

Said that the gospel is the power of God to salvation for all that believe it. 1 Corinthians 15 says the gospel now saves you. Ephesians 1 says the gospel is what a person hears, believes, and they’re then regenerated by the power of the Holy Spirit who then seals them unto the day of redemption, serving as a down payment from God himself of the inheritance a believer has in the Lord Jesus Christ and his perfect finished work. That’s the gospel. The person and work of Jesus. A person hears that, trusts it by faith, believing that Jesus was who he said he was and did what he

Said he would, recognizing that they’re a sinner in need of a savior, crying out to God for forgiveness. But that’s not what you guys call the gospel. Your scholars call that a limited gospel. Their words, not mine. You guys possess the everlasting gospel, a special, unique, only for you guys gospel. Well, scriptures clear. There’s only one gospel. Not two, not three, not a limited one and a fuller one. No, there’s only one. Which means that if the apostles weren’t preaching what you guys are calling the gospel, you have a false one. And the apostles were not

Preaching the investigative judgment for the forgiveness of sins. That’s not what the intercession of Christ looks like, sir. That’s the problem. Not that he doesn’t intercede, but what you guys call that another word that you included in there. They weren’t preaching the investigative judgment as the power of God to salvation for all that believe it. Yet, that’s what scripture says the gospel is. The catch 22. You guys either have a false gospel or you have to argue that the apostles were preaching the seventh adventist systematic theology as the gospel because that’s what you guys

Call the gospel, the full gospel, the true gospel. That is a life ordeath message. And that’s only one aspect we could look at. Premillennial historicist esquetology is not the gospel. Conditional immortality, not the gospel. Young earth creation, not the gospel. Health message, not the gospel. 7th day Sabbath, not the gospel. All of this stuff is theological in nature, but it’s not the gospel. Jesus saves you. Dead to life, sealed, done deal. No, Dr. Lake, you guys do not teach this. He said, “The heart and the center is the death, burial, and resurrection of

Christ. And the gospel is Christ.” What Christ, Dr. Lake? What Christ? Who are you talking about? You guys have a false Christ, sir? One that’s not real. That was only a man while on earth setting his divine nature aside who doubted his resurrection and couldn’t see through the portals of the tomb because Satan was able to twist his heart causing him to doubt which is a sin by the way because doubt is unbelief and unbelief is a sin. This also creates division within the SDA godhead that Jerry Moon in his paper says if exists would be polytheism.

You mentioned the pre-existence of Christ. Oh, you mean the Christ that isn’t Yahweh was exalted to be made equal with the Father, thus resulting in Lucifer becoming jealous and attacking the Ten Commandments? That Christ isn’t real. And you didn’t demonstrate that he is. You made a a bunch of nice sounding assertions, but you didn’t demonstrate from scripture that this is the Jesus of the Bible. He said, “All of this is about Christ’s completed work for us on the cross. That’s the basis of his salvation.” Okay, Dr. Lake, this is dishonesty, sir. Sorry, but I’m

Calling you out. All that you guys teach regarding the completed work at the cross is that the atoning sacrifice was completed there and God’s law was vindicated and Satan silenced, but you say this to sound like Christians and make it appear as though you’re saying the same thing evangelicals do. No, sir, you guys don’t. And we’re going to demonstrate that now. And you guys need to stop being dishonest. Yes, I’m calling you out. We’ve had lots of cordial conversations before. You’re a nice guy. But no, sir, we’re we’re not doing this. You guys need to deal with what I’m

Actually saying over here. First, notice the February 1942 issue of the ministry official SDA publication. Is this some fringe thing, sir? from Warren Hal, one of the most influential Adventists in the early 20th century, according to the own SDA encyclopedia, not some fringe source. Okay. Whoops. Quote, “Some of our detractors from the faith endeavor vainly to make it appear that atonement was wholly accomplished on the cross and therefore wholly outside the sanctuary.” This view does away with the need of a sanctuary in heaven and of ministry there by our high

Priest in the two phases foreshadowed in the typical service. It also repudiates our interpretation of the 2300 days and our belief regarding the event which occurred in 1844. Close quote. Very forthright and easy to understand. All that was completed at the cross in your guys’ system was the atoning sacrifice. Not the atonement, not reconciliation. Something else we also saw in part one. This typology breaks down trying to support this two phases, not realizing that the temple building itself pointed to Jesus himself like everything else in the tabernacle did. Yes, the tabernacle

Itself included. God tabernacled among us. That’s where the presence of God dwelt. But Jesus is getting at in part in John chapter 2. destroy this temple in three days and I’ll raise it. Oh, it took us 40 however many years to build this temple. But he spoke of the temple of his body. And the sins of the penitant were not daily transferred in type into a sanctuary into the sanctuary building during the Levitical priesthood work. We showed that as well in the last one. But notice another source again. WR in his book dimensions in salvation. Is this a fringe source sir?

This used to be your guys’ staple regarding SDA Soteriology Review and Herald Publishing. Quote, “But the atonement cannot be restricted to what Christ accomplished on the cross. A biblical view must include the application of the benefits of the sacrifice on the cross to the individual sinner and the actualization of these benefits in his life. Moreover, we believe biblical atonement has a yet wider connotation encompassing God’s complete work of salvation and restoration of his creation to its original state. In this larger total sense, atonement involves in broad

Outline the issues and events in the great controversy between Christ and Satan. Close quote. Ah, right. Because the great controversy is what defines all of this. Christians don’t believe that the Holy Spirit doesn’t apply the work of Christ in time at the appointed time that a person comes to to Christ by faith. It’s just like these objections, folks. It’s just like you don’t even understand what you’re criticizing. Yes, Christians believe that the the function and the role of the Holy Spirit in redemption is the application of the work of Christ,

Justification, sanctification, eventually glorification, all these things, the seal. But that isn’t the atonement. The atonement which is uh the atonement which is why Christians hear that you know the the the SDA church the SDA church teaches these things. It’s why they’re confused not because they don’t agree that the benefits of Christ are applied to a person but because of the erroneous defining of everything through the great controversy theme. Again Adventist Review and Sabbath Herald April 22nd 1976. We’re covering all sorts of generations. Dr. like 19th

Century, 20th century, 21st century. Quote, both Miller and Croer Ol Croer strongly affirmed that the atonement was not completed on the cross. Miller says instead then of the atonement being made at the death and sufferings of Christ. It is made by his life and intercession in heaven. Croer goes so far as to say that Christ did not begin the work of making the atonement. Whatever the nature of that work may be till after his ascension when his own blood when by his own blood he entered his heavenly sanctuary for us. These views run counter to to what for centuries the

Christian church in general has been teaching on the atonement. To some evangelical Christians, views such as this are regarded as blasphemous or at the very least totally non-Christian because Seventh Day Adventists have insisted on an atonement now going on. And for certain other reasons as well, these evangelical Christians have not been willing to classify Seventh Day Adventists as Christians. They have labeled them as a cult. Close quote. Yes, blasphemous and non-Christian indeed. The issue is not Christ’s intercession in heaven and whether you

Think that happens or not. Once again, it’s how they define this which we will see in a moment. But let’s also not forget Dr. Lake that Uriah Smith back in the to the 19th century now also told us in the same paper, Advent Review and Sabbath Herald in the 1800s that the death of Christ and the atonement are not the same thing. Let this fact be forever fixed in your minds. So, Dr. Lake, are you telling us the SDA church has renounced these words by Uriah Smith? I’d love to see it. Where’s it at? Nothing you said prove that the SDA church by way of primary sources doesn’t

Teach a false gospel. Yes, they do. Because the SDA church uphold the upholds the great controversy worldview and filters everything through that. The purpose of the gospel is not what you guys claim. yada yada. I’ve said all that a million times tonight. Yet, it’s what is put forth in the primary source documentation you claim needs to be assessed and not anecdotal hyperconservative SDAs in the corner somewhere. We’re not we’re not looking at fringe sources, sir. Perfect life in perfect obedience to God’s requirements, to God’s laws, and that life is placed in

My behalf. The imputation of Christ righteousness, that’s that’s a part of this gospel. So, the death of Christ is everything. Paul puts a lot of emphasis on the death of Christ, the substitutionary death of Christ. But as you read through scripture, the gospel also envelops all the works of Christ, his resurrection, his ascension, and his high priestly ministry. There is a book by a scholar outside of Adventism that understands atonement in a similar way that Adventists do. We definitely believe that the atonement was complete at the cross. No question. But there’s a

Broadening of the atonement. It continues in Christ’s work in heaven in his high priestly intercession. David M. Muffett in his book, Rethinking the Atonement: New Perspectives on Jesus death, resurrection, and ascension, published in 2022 by Baker Academic, Evangelical Scholar, but is is taking a position that is something Adventists have taught all along. Listen to how he articulates it. This is the basic idea of his book. Jesus saves his people by dying, yes, but even more by rising, ascending, and now interceding for them at the right hand of the father. Because

The love of Jesus for his siblings extends and by siblings he means us his his people. Because of the love of Jesus for his siblings extends beyond the cross to include his ongoing intercession. Nothing can separate us from God. Romans 8:35 through39. Not only did Jesus die for us, he now also intercedes for us before the father. These aspects of his saving work are held together in his person. They are part of who he is. Jesus is the one who died, rose, ascended, and is seated at the right hand of the father. These credle affirmations which help to identify who

The son of God is are all a part of how he saves his people from their sins. There is no one event in the life of the incarnate son of God that does all the work of salvation. As essential as all these several events are for salvation, they are held together in the person of the incarnate son Jesus. It is Jesus who saves his people from their sins, not the death of Jesus or even the so-called Christ event, but it’s Jesus himself. And certainly you read the the book, this author is not diminishing the death of Christ in any way in its its foundational role. So yes, we we

Emphasize the finished and completed work of Christ, the atonement of Christ on the cross, but we see the gospel in its fullness that takes us all the way to the end of scripture, the finale of scripture, which is the ultimate restoration of all things in the earth made new. That’s the extent of the gospel. But without question, its core is the doing and the dying and the rising of Christ. That I believe is the testimony of scripture. That I believe is the Adventist understanding of the gospel when Adventism is at its best. And I would argue that if you read Ellen

White, major spokesperson for Seventh Day Adventist, if you read her carefully, comprehensively, the theme of righteousness by faith, salvation in Christ, runs like a golden thread all through her writings. Let Yeah. imputation, completed atonement, and evangelicals. Can you guys tell that Dr. Lake is a professor of homalytics preaching? It’s very clear in his presentation style. But he said, “Adventists believe in imputation.” Yes. And Dr. Lake, you guys filter imputation through the great controversy worldview. You do not derive it strictly from

Scripture. And what you guys mean by this is not what Christians mean. So, Dr. Lake, is George Knight a fringe hyperconservative SDA? Because notice what he says in search for identity. Quote, as a corrective, talking about to the reformers, John Wesley emphasized sanctification as a process of becoming more like Jesus. To him, justification was the work of a moment, while sanctification was the work of a lifetime. Justification came by imputed righteousness. Sanctification by imparted righteousness. Close quote. Dr. Lake, I’ve heard you appeal to to

John Wesley, I don’t know how many times, to claim that you guys are firmly in the Wesleyan tradition, and this is how they try and claim that they affirm justification by faith. They’re justified at a single instant, but then gradually imparted with Christ’s righteous merits over time through progressive sanct sanctification. But here’s the problem, sir. One, John Wesley didn’t have a great controversy worldview. He did not mean the same thing that you guys mean by justification and sanctification. You guys don’t believe justification is a one-time act. your scholars such as

Peter van Bemlin, Professor Emiretus from 7th Adventist Theological Seminary, who in his paper titled Justification by Faith in Adventist understanding wrote that you guys affirm an escatological justification on top of initial justification. a future justification based on if someone is sanctified enough. Namely, they arrive at a condition of perfect lawkeeping. Because again, you have to do like Jesus. Keep the law as perfectly as Jesus did to silence Satan’s accusations and vindicate God’s character. And how do I know that? Ellen White, great

Controversy. Page 623. Is this a fringe hyperconservative source, Dr. Lake? Quote, “Now while our great high priest is making the atonement for us, we should seek to become perfect in Christ.” Ah, what does that mean? Not even by a thought could our savior be brought to yield to the power of temptation. Satan finds in human hearts some point where he can gain a foothold, some sinful desires cherished by means of which his temptations assert their power. But Christ declared of himself, “The prince of this world cometh and hath nothing in me.” John 14:30. Satan

Could find nothing in the son of God that would enable him to gain the victory he had kept his father’s commandments. And there was no sin in him that that Satan could use to his advantage. This is the condition in which those must be found who shall stand in the time of trouble. Close quote. Just like the previous sources we looked at from Warren How and WRB, you yourself included the investigative judgment in the gospel. Here, your prophetus tells us that while the investigative judgment is going on and Christ is making atonement for us, you should seek to

Become perfect in Christ. I’ve heard you yourself use this term. Adventists will tell us that means trying your best to keep the ten commandments. Is that how Ellen defined it here? trying your best. No. While the investigative judgment is going on, you must get to a point where you are found identical to how Jesus was, the same condition he was found in, totally perfect, or you won’t make it through the coming time of trouble, where Jesus won’t be meeting mediating for you, and you’ll have to stand before Almighty God without an intercessor. You’re leaving out all of these vitally

Important details and resorting to very barebones sounding language to make it appear like I’m making a big deal out of nothing while also claiming that we need to not point at anecdotes or individual SDAs but utilize primary source materials. Yeah, that’s our thing here, sir. Between this part and the last part, I’ve cited 10 times the amount of primary source documentation that you have, which is zero. It’s just been your own personal take which is a very watered down and ignores the real issues take. But we will get into imputation and impartation more in a little bit in

Another section. He said Adventists believe atonement was completed at the cross. No question. So again, Dr. Lake, are you denouncing all the people and publications I’ve cited, including Ellen White? Furthermore, Ellen White just told us that Christ is currently making atonement in heaven, which is why your fundamental belief number 24 states that Christ began his second phase of the atonement in 1844. Which is why you should say what those of the likes of Morris Vendon did. Which Yuri Mscala, professor at 7th Adventist Theological Seminary, cites Morris

Vendon in his paper titled the meaning of the intercessory ministry of Jesus Christ on our behalf in the heavenly sanctuary which you yourself included in your gospel presentation by high priestly work of Christ. That’s what he means. the sanctuary in the investigative judgment. Are Yuri uh Mscala and Morris Vindon fringe hyperconservative fanatics off in the corner somewhere? Sir, notice 7th Day Adventists have always believed in a complete atonement that is not completed. Yeah. And that summarizes Adventism perfectly. Oxymoronic, an utter mess of contradictions and

Confusion. Furthermore, in contours of Adventist sotiology, salvation a uh salvation contours of adventist sotiology, notice what John Pauline writes at the beginning of chapter 10 titled atonement accomplished at the cross. Quote, one of the most debated topics of Christian theology is expressed in these questions. Why the cross? What really happened at the cross? The answers to these questions have been widely debated under the general heading of the atonement. But when Seventh Day Adventists approach the matter of atonement, an immediate dilemma is

Perceived. When Adventists talk about atonement, they refer specifically to what Jesus is doing now in the heavenly sanctuary. On the other hand, when scholars outside of the SDA church discuss the atonement, they refer to spec specifically to the cross of Jesus Christ and what God was doing there. close quote. When Adventists refer to the atonement, they mean what? The investigative judgment. What Jesus is supposedly doing right now, which Ellen White just got done telling us as well. And that while that’s going on, you have to get to a totally sinless condition

Identical to what Jesus was found in or you’re not going to make it. Christ’s intercession in heaven looks nothing like you guys claim, sir. That’s the problem. Don’t tell us you just believe in imputation. The Adventist Jesus is like a Levitical priest still dealing with sin, wearing Levitical priesthood garments according to Ellen White, who will cease functioning as a mediator at a point in the future and assume the role of a king at that point after transferring the sins of those found worthy onto Satan, the scapegoat. None of this is correct. And when we

Point this out, all you guys can say is, “Well, you just you don’t believe Jesus is an intercessor,” which is without question 100% false. This idea that the Adventist church resurrected the idea of they don’t understand that Jesus is an intercessor. Yeah. Tell us you’ve never actually studied uh Christian history at all. I simply recognize what the Bible actually says this looks like, not what Ellen White and the Great Controversy Worldview says. because your whole movement is dependent upon 1844 being true. He appealed to Dr. Moffet in evangelicalism or again in the words of

Uh John Lomchan apostate Protestantism. We get the classic appealing to the apostate Protestants to validate the remnant. But appealing to Dr. Moffett doesn’t prove anything. Dr. Lake, this is just another attempt at trying to point to someone outside of Adventism to add legitimacy to your errant views. We can all play that game. How does this deal with the criticisms of this platform? Modern scholars like Lake emphatically assert, “No, no, no. We believe atonement was complete at the cross. No question.” Yet, their pioneers who also had the theological God particle, the

Theory of everything, claim the death of Christ and the atonement aren’t even the same thing. And this is who God supposedly raised up to restore his church and is the bastion of theological unity amidst all those confused Protestants out there. Now their scholars will appeal to those confused Protestants to try and add validity to the movement. But more importantly, and this must be understood, he tried siding from Dr. Moffet and his use of the language such as interceding and intercession to try and say, “See, see this Christian agrees with us. This is what we’ve always been

Saying.” No, Dr. Moffett doesn’t have a great controversy worldview. Sir, he doesn’t believe the intercession of Christ looks like what you guys put forth. He doesn’t affirm the sevenstep sanctuary model of reconciliation that you guys have put forth. This is just word association fallacy because he uses the word intercession and connects that to the atonement that somehow supposed to vindicate your guys’ entirely novel view. I mean, give me a break. The intercession of Christ includes his kingship, something completely missing from your entire fundamental belief on the

Intercessory work of Christ. It’s not even mentioned. Furthermore, you guys insert into that intercessory work of Christ a fiction from your pre-earth origin story that Jesus is at step five of seven and it’s an investigatory work to vindicate God’s character ultimately and so many other non-biblical details that ultimately come from your prophetus. Dr. Moffett doesn’t affirm these. You also have to appeal to something from 2022. This is the problem. Anytime Adventists try to appeal to others to validate their own system, whether it’s John Wesley, David Moffet, the Protestant

Reformers, or whoever, none of those individuals had a great controversy worldview. You guys believe Christ was inaugurated as a priest at his ascension. No, he wasn’t. You guys teach the intercessory work of Christ in heaven involves sins being transferred by confession to a heavenly sanctuary building for Jesus to deal with them. This is supposed to be modeled after the Old Testament priest work. Except no, the sins of penitent believers were never transferred into the holy place to be stored until the day of atonement. Leviticus 4 is clear. They were only transferred into the

Sanctuary on two occasions. When the priest sinned or when the nation sinned and sinned unintentionally at that. But notice Dr. Moffett recognizes that Jesus’s work as intercessor was what? a part of who he is. Meaning, it’s integral to the incarnation, which is why Jesus forever lives to make intercession. Something else you guys don’t believe because Ellen White said he would cease that at some point in the future. But more importantly, how is this a response to answering Adventism? So, because you found an evangelical scholar that understands atonement encompasses

More than Christ’s death, that proves the gospel is that Jesus came to silence accusations from Satan by vindicating the law and demonstrating that with his help, you can keep it and vindicate God’s character from Satan. Also, if you think my objection, sir, is that Jesus isn’t an intercessor and so this silences our platform, you have a lot of catching up to do. A lot. He ended there by saying, “If you read Ellen White comprehensively, you’ll see the theme of righteousness by faith, salvation by faith all through her writings.” Yeah. And you know what else runs like a

Common thread throughout all of her books, sir? Heresy, damnable heresy. And it’s not a golden thread. It’s pyite. Fool’s gold. A false Christ that isn’t real and a false gospel that’s cursed by God. The investigative judgment is not the gospel. It’s a novel 19th century coverup doctrine that was the result of not wanting to accept being wrong. You’ve included this in the gospel. Yet the apostles were not preaching it. You’ve included it in the gospel. Yet the review and herald tells us it’s a part of the unique post 1844 present truth message that only you guys have.

So thank you for evidencing that you guys have a different gospel, a different message and mission from the Christian church like Aaron Cruz highlighted there in the intro. And again appealing to phrases, sir, like righteousness by faith and salvation by grace through faith. That means nothing when Herb Douglas already told us. The great controversy theme defines all of that. A statement here that shows how important the cross was in her thinking. Here’s what she wrote. This is manuscript release uh 49, 1898. and manuscript manuscript releases volume 21 and page 37. I quote, “Hanging

Up on the cross, Christ was the gospel. Now we have a message.” She’s writing to Adventist leaders here. Behold the lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world. Will not our church members keep their eyes fixed on a crucified and risen savior in whom their hopes of eternal life are centered? This is our message, our argument, our doctrine, our warning to the impenitent, our encouragement for the sorrowing, the hope for every believer. If we can awaken an interest in men’s minds that will cause them to fix their eyes on Christ, we may step aside and ask them

Only to continue to fix their eyes upon the lamb of God. That’s one of many, many statements that she makes. She repeatedly called ministers to uplift Christ in his life, Christ in his death, Christ in his resurrection, Christ in his ascension, Christ in his high priestly ministry, and Christ in his coming back again. Ellen White emphasized that holistic understanding of the gospel articulated throughout the New Testament. Yes. And what did we read from the review and herald in my introduction? Dr. Blake, the law points you to Jesus and seeing his wounds demonstrates the

Law is immutable and can be kept. So he points you back to the law with the power to now keep it and fulfills its righteous requirements and and uh and you’re essentially saved by your obedience to it. So let’s look at some of these many many statements that Ellen White makes about the cross, shall we? Desire of Ages, page 762. Quote, “The law requires righteousness, a righteous life, a perfect character, and this man has not to give. He cannot meet the claims of God’s holy law. But Christ coming to the earth as a man, lived a holy life and developed a

Perfect character.” These he offers as a free gift to all who will receive them. His life stands for the life of men. Thus they have remission of sins that are passed through the forbearance of God. More than this, Christ imbuss men with the attributes of God. He builds up the human character after the similitude of the divine character, a godly fabric of spiritual strength and beauty. Thus, the very righteousness of the law is fulfilled in the believer in Christ. God can be just and the justifier of him that believeth in Jesus. Romans 3:6. Close quote. So notice Dr. Lake assured

Us earlier that they believe in imputation. Christ stands in the believer’s place. He says Adventism teaches. But what they mean by this is that the law requires perfect righteousness. And that’s exactly correct. It does. But it isn’t that Jesus alone possesses such a thing and never violated it one single time. Thus, he fulfills the righteous requirements. He developed a perfect character to then be able to gradually impart that righteousness to you to also develop a divine character. And it’s by this gradual impartation based on how well you obey, meeting the

Conditions that will develop a perfect righteousness within you. And thus, you too will fulfill the law like Jesus. And then she butchers Romans 3, which is speaking about how God both punished sin in the person of Christ. He didn’t let it slide. Thus, he’s just. But he’s also the one that justifies people through their faith in Christ. Romans 5:1. Which is why he’s also the justifier to those who believe. But then she continues on the next page. Quote, “Another deception was now to be brought forward. Satan declared that mercy destroyed justice, that the death

Of Christ abregated the Father’s law. Had it been possible for the law to be changed or abregated, then Christ need not have died. But to abregate the law would be to immortalize transgression and place the world under Satan’s control. It was because the law was changeless, because man could be saved only through obedience to its precepts that Jesus was lifted up on the cross. Close quote. Man can only be saved through obedience to the law. That’s why Jesus was lifted up on the cross. She says Dr. Lake once again demonstrating you guys do not understand the proper role that

Obedience plays. You do not understand the law gospel distinction. No, man is not saved through obedience to the law plus faith. Perfectly in line with what we saw earlier regarding the law pointing you to Jesus who can empower you to then keep the law. His wounds point you back to the law, now empowering you by faith to keep it and fulfill the covenant of works yourself by having Jesus gradually impart his divine merits to you. So you can point to all these things. She tells you to always look at Jesus. Look at Jesus. Yeah, you’re not getting into the

Problems, sir. You’re trying to make it seem like, look, how could anyone take umbrage with pointing to Jesus? Are you serious? Clearly, no one’s going to take umbrage with that. Sir, you seriously think that my contention is they don’t claim that you have to look to Jesus. They don’t claim that the cross has a role in their theology. Give me a break. But this is what Dr. Lake means when he says Christ stands in his place. It isn’t that Jesus fulfills the law entirely and you can have peace with God through him right this very second. It’s that you can have forgiveness for

Your past sins. Notice she said that before. I always bring this up. Your past sins. And then moving forward, Jesus will impart his righteousness to you in small spurts, getting you to a place where you’re keeping the law entirely and fulfilling its righteous requirements. Despite the fact that no, that’s not how the law works. You break it, you pay the penalty. Period. There’s no doovers or redoss. Only Jesus meets that standard. And you are then given his righteousness in full. Philippians 3. When you believe, which is why Paul could say, therefore, having been

Justified by faith, we have peace with God. Romans 5:1. By being in Christ, I’m already seen as if I kept the law perfectly. Not after some gradual impartation of mystical righteousness that then demonstrates I’m safe to save. You guys are medieval in your sotiology. Not refor not not part of the reformation. Man is saved by the gospel which is the good news about the person and work of Christ. his perfect active and passive obedience of never violating the law one single time, fulfilling the covenant of works perfectly such that those who were

Held under it in bondage could be freed from the curse of the law. Galatians 3:13. The curse being do this and you’ll live. Do that and you’ll die. Well, all of us have broken that. Only Jesus kept it perfectly, meeting the requirements of the covenant of works, fulfilling it, which is why it’s abregated. Now, you guys don’t see it this way. We got into this last week regarding the law gospel distinction. But this is why it’s ridiculous when the Adventist belief book and the fundamental belief regarding the law tries to say they teach obedience is simply the fruit of

Already being saved. No. Something else she said about the cross. I’ve quoted it I don’t know how many times at this point. Patriarchs and Prophets page 357. quote, “The blood of Christ, while it was to release the repentant sinner from the condemnation of the law, was not to cancel the sin. It would stand on record in the sanctuary until the final atonement. So in the type, the blood of the sin offering removed the sin from the penitent, but it rested in the sanctuary until the day of atonement.” Close quote. No, you’re not out from under the condemnation of the law in Adventism

Because the law can still condemn you. You could come to Christ and then well, you didn’t get to that sinlessly perfect state, so now the the law will end up condemning you. Didn’t free you from the condemnation of the law. Gave you a second probation so that you, like Adam and Eve, can be like they were with the covenant of works, back on a second probation to demonstrate that you can keep the law, vindicating God’s character, etc. But as it pertains to her quote here, no, Hebrews 9 is clear. Jesus put sin away at the cross. You read from Ellen White there, sir. What

Did she say? Christ takes our sins away. No, he doesn’t. He transfers them to heaven. They still stand on record. They’re not gone. You guys don’t believe he’s the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world. You believe Satan’s the scapegoat that takes the sins of the world away. Jesus isn’t in heaven still dealing with sin, just in a different location than the earth. Which is also why the issue of Satan bearing sin away in the end is also problematic. It was put away at the cross. But no, Jesus Christ is the lamb of God who took away the sins of the

World. John 1:29. And he did so by putting it away at the cross. Hebrews 9:26. Furthermore, Jesus is both a high priest and a king. Something your fundamental beliefs book say nothing about. They only talk of his priestly work. In this belief, the Adventist Jesus is not simultaneously a high priest and king, which is why they don’t understand the intercession of Christ. I’ve brought this up, I don’t know how many times, short form, long form, mid form, constantly. They erroneously claim that Jesus was inaugurated to be a priest at his ascension. No, he was not. We looked at

This in part one. He was inaugurated at his baptism. He functioned as a high priest in the offering up of himself at Calvary. Hebrews 2 and elsewhere. He was the high priest and the sacrifice. The high priest had to offer the sacrifice. Sir, he wasn’t inaugurated as a priest at his ascension. He functioned as a high priest in his high priestly prayer. John 17. Scripture is very clear on this. when you don’t have a 19th century novelty that you have to uphold at all costs. But again, Desire of Ages speaking about the Adventist Jesus while on the cross.

Quote, “Satan with his fierce temptations rung the heart of Jesus. The Savior could not see through the portals of the tomb. Hope did not present to him as coming forth from the grave a conqueror or tell him of the Father’s acceptance of his sacrifice. He feared that sin was so offensive to God that their separation was to be eternal. Close quote. So the Adventist Jesus had his mind twisted by the devil who was able to cause him to doubt his resurrection and if his sacrifice would be accepted. Which means the Adventist Jesus was not perfect in his passive obedience which

Requires unwavering perfect faith. You said earlier, Dr. Lake, you guys believe in imputation. Well, that means nothing, sir, because you need the perfect passive and active obedience of Jesus Christ to be seen as righteous to fulfill the law’s demands. Not that not imputation by faith and then well gradual impartation through Christ’s merits and maybe eventually an escal. No, you need his perfect passive and active. His active obedience, his perfect active obedience meaning he never sinned in action, word, thought, deed, motive. But his passive obedience,

Perfect passive obedience was his submitting to the will of the father perfectly, walking out at Calvary, having perfect unwavering faith at all times. That’s what you need. You have to have a perfect unwavering faith. You don’t. None of us do. Only Jesus does. Which is why you need that given to you on account of of him and his record. You guys want to try and do this both and thing. Well, we we do believe in imputation, but then there’s the gradual impartation which will lead to the eventual final esqueological justification. No, the Adventist Jesus here apparently

Doubted at some point which would mean he sinned because doubt is unbelief and unbelief is a sin and he didn’t have unwavering faith. You guys can point to all the flowery sounding quotes like is typically done, but it doesn’t deal with the countless problematic ones. Sure, when she was stealing from an orthodox theologian, she sounded fine sometimes. No, not every single thing that she wrote was wrong. I’ve never claimed that either. What deception is 100% false. Satan’s never worked that way. Truth is always mixed in with deadly poison. This platform has never asserted, not

One single time, that Adventists don’t claim that the cross is central or anything along those lines. And if this is being said in response to me, which it is, then you should be dealing with the Ellen White statements I’ve regularly objected to and demonstrated are heretical. But notice, it’s okay for Dr. late to site for manuscript releases, something outside of the Conflict of the Ages series. We get flack from some Adventists that try and use the excuse that if that if it isn’t from the Conflict of the Ages series or Christ object lessons, you just you don’t know

What you’re you don’t know what you’re citing from. You don’t understand how Ellen White’s writings are really handled by scholars and pastors. Yet, once again, when an Adventist cites from across the gamut, it’s plain what’s being said. It’s just we don’t need an interpreter, you know? It it could be from any of her writings, but when you’re critical and you site, it’s like there was a a sweep of your mind of your common sense. You can’t understand what’s actually being said. You need this, you know, it’s it’s all cryptic. He said she called on ministers to

Uplift Christ in his life and his death. Yes. For the same reasons I just got done laying out, sir. To exalt the law which Christ points you to where she intermingles law and gospel. Not understanding this fundamental distinction. Because notice what else she called Adventist ministers too. Also from manuscript releases but volume 12 or volume 17. Quote, “The law of God with its binding claims and its solemn injunctions should be clearly and distinctly set forth just as it is given in the decalogue. We should make efforts to call together large congregations to hear the words of

The gospel minister and those who preach the word of the Lord should speak the truth. They should bring their hearers as it were to the foot of Sinai to listen to the words spoken by God amidst the scenes of awful grandeur. These words are as changeless and eternal as the throne of Jehovah. Close quote. Once again demonstrating for everyone that she did not understand the distinction between law and gospel. Yes, gospel ministers herald the law not for the purpose that the SDA church says. They herald it because it’s a part of scripture. And what I mean by that is

What I mean when I’m talking about law and gospel, the law and gospel distinction, not just the ten commandments, statements of dos and don’ts. But no, it isn’t the job of the gospel minister to bring people to the foot of Sinai. It’s the gospel minister’s job to highlight the scenes of awful grandeur at Sinai which represented a dark scary separation and chasm between God and man such that everyone was afraid to approach God and relied on Moses to mediate. And then they should highlight and point them to the foot of Mount Zion, the better mountain according to Hebrews 12,

Which Zion and Si are contrasted like the whole book is comparing and contrasting the the better with the old, the new and the old, the better, Jesus being better than the angels, better than the the Levitical priest, a better sacrifice, a better Sabbath, all these things. Well, in chapter 12, that same theme continues and the author goes to great lengths to compare and contrast Sinai with Zion, the better mountain, where we’re told that we can approach God with confidence, boldness, assurance without any fear because Jesus bridged the gap and appeased the wrath of God

Toward us and our sin. They didn’t have that at Sinai. They were terrified. It’s not a place of of coming with boldness and confidence. you touch the mountain, you’ll die. You guys don’t understand the proper use of the law, its role and function in the Christian life, etc. And it’s all because of the great controversy theme distorting everything. Now you can read statements, critics will quote statements that seem to say something different from that. But if you read them in their context, you have to understand that Ellen White always had balancing statements. She’s very

Consistent on this issue with faith and works. If she emphasized salvation freely, she also wanted people to know coming from her Wesley Armenian framework that one if one relaxes too much, you could get into trouble and lose your walk with Christ and lose your spirituality. But on the other hand, for those who never seem to have assurance, who were depending upon themselves, she always emphasized the gospel. So she’s always endeavoring to capture that tension that we find in scripture itself between faith and works. In fact, I think the classic verse

On this matter, one of many, of course, but a classic verse is in Ephesians. And this is what I find this theme enunciated throughout Ellen White’s writings. Ephesians 2 verse 8 through10 Paul writes for by grace classic verse for by grace you have been saved through faith and that is not of yourselves. It is the gift of God not of works lest anyone should boast. I find that articulated throughout Adventist literature. I find that articulated throughout Ellen White. But notice the the connection here in the next verse. Verse 10. For we are his workmanship,

Created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. God prepared beforehand. He he ordained that we would walk in newness of life. And those good works in the context of this verse are clearly based on what Christ has done. The fact that we’re not saved by works. I find that dual theme of faith and works, assurance and belief, Christ work and human effort pulled together in scripture and always held intention in the writings of Ellen White. And there is a whole movement of of scholars now that are rejecting the

Calvinistic approach and nothing against Calvinism. I studied at a Calvinist seminary. Uh my first doctorate was from reformed theological seminary. respect reformation theology. I respect reformed theology and Calvin in many many ways. But obviously there are significant differences. A number of scholars now staunch biblical scholars are recognizing the Armenian approach to salvation that it is possible one can lose their salvation. And this is not just Adventist. This is many other biblical scholars. If you go to renew.org oorgg that is a whole website

Dedicated to this uh that is possible. One can still lose their salvation yet by trusting in Christ one can always have assurance of salvation. The fact that one could eventually leave Christ that they have the right the choice to walk away from Christ does not have to diminish their assurance of salvation. That’s the framework of the gospel understanding in Adventism is that that Armenian framework that Wesleyan Armenian framework Jacob Arminius um contemporary with Calvin um agreed with Calvin on a lot of things as many of us would today but he also parted

From Calvin in the issue of free will and salvation. So there are these nuanced differences within evangelicalism today. But ah the reading out of context excuse. Dr. Lake, I challenge you or any SDA scholar to get on a stage with me and debate the gospel. Let’s do it. Let’s have a public facing discussion, debate, whatever you want to call it, and let’s discuss the the actual objections that I’ve raised and supported with Ellen White’s own words and a plethora of others. I only cite her because you guys have elevated her to a divinely inspired source.

You mean to tell me Ellen White didn’t actually claim that the law points you to Jesus, who then points you back to the law after giving you the power to now keep it and allows you to do something you couldn’t have done before? You mean to tell me Ellen White didn’t plainly say that faith in Christ and obedience to the law is how one’s brought into favor with God and shown to be safe to save? That’s out of context. She didn’t say that Jesus couldn’t see through the portals of the tomb because Satan was able to twist his mind causing him to doubt. That was said in some

Other context that’s not actually saying that. Like she’s describing something someone else said and then I’m falsely attributing it attributing it to her or something like that. She didn’t say that the blood of Christ didn’t cancel any sin at the cross, but that sin would stand on record in heaven where the final atonement would take place, the exact thing codified in fundamental belief number 24 and was plainly stated in contours. the exact book that you said I need to be read more comprehensively on or you’re going to say you guys are going to have to grow past

This apologetic of just viscerally responding that everyone who cites Ellen White critically is doing so out of context. This woman was a third grade educated woman. She was not an advanced writer. On the one hand, Ted Wilson stated at Doug Bachelor’s hold the line conference, aka damage control conference, that people need to be reading the spirit of prophecy for themselves. Don’t just take Pastor Wilson or Pastor Bachelor’s word for it. Oh, but that’s only if you’re reading her favorably. If that’s the case, crystal clear, easy to understand. But on the other hand, if

You read her comprehensively, but you’re critical, testing her against the word of God, you know, like the Bible says, being a Berean, then all of a sudden she’s obscure and difficult to read, and you’re just taking her out of context. Give me a break. This defense is so old and doesn’t apply here. We make all of our sources publicly available and if they’re available online, we try and link to them, such as our website, which is saturated with thousands of primary source documents. People can go and check for themselves and see if anything’s taken

Out of context. They don’t have to take my word for it. He said she was always balanced in her approach between faith and works, and we aren’t saved by works. No. See, Dr. Lake, this is where you’re wrong, sir. We just saw multiple quotes and I could keep going over and over and over. You’re saved by faith plus your obedience. This is as plain as the nose on your face, sir. The problem is not faith over and against works or faith and no works. It’s the proper role of works, sir. The role that they play. Nowhere have I ever made the claim that Ellen White taught

That people should have works with their faith. Therefore, she’s wrong and we should only have faith. But like the infamous Testimonies for the Church Volume 4 quote that I’ve cited countless times that clearly shows, no, you don’t know what you’re talking about or you’re just being you’re being dishonest. Quote, “Man who has defaced the image of God in his soul by a corrupt life cannot by mere human effort affect a radical change in himself. He must accept the provisions of the gospel.” Oh, what are those? He must be reconciled to God through obedience to his law and faith

In Jesus Christ. His life from then forth must be governed by a new principle. Through repentance, faith, and good works, he may perfect a righteous character and claim through the merits of Christ the privileges of the sons of God. Close quote. No, this isn’t a balancing of faith and works. Dr. lake. Once again, she demonstrates her inability to distinguish between the law and the gospel by mixing the two, claiming that the provisions of the gospel are that you can be reconciled to God through your obedience to the law and faith in Jesus. The problem is you

Guys don’t understand that what you’re saying the the uh the negative of that statement, which is what’s being implied when you say it, is Christ alone is not enough. It’s Christ plus you have to do something. You’re saying that Christ alone is not enough. Christ can’t actually save. He can make something a possibility and he’s trying his best and he’s doing everything he can. He’s getting totally won in the SDA great controversy. Satan is totally rocking the Adventist Jesus. But through repentance, faith, and good works, you can perfect a righteous

Character, which one has to do in order to silence Satan, mirror Jesus perfectly, and vindicate God, which will result in being rewarded with eternal life. As we saw earlier, this is false. Romans 5 1-11 is clear. And this is just one of many places. This is after he talks about how Abraham was justified before God. It doesn’t say Abraham was justified then he walked out in obedience and then because of that he was justified again esqueologically or had a second tier of justification etc. No he walked out in obedience because he was justified doesn’t Paul didn’t say his

Justification was maintained by him then walking out. No, he walked out because people who have true faith do that. Then he continues in chapter 5. Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. This is the blessed man that is uh referred to in the previous chapter. Who’s the blessed man? The man who’s been justified by faith and presently has peace with God. Not after you’ve had some impartation over time that will eventually lead to okay then you have peace with God. Okay, it’s it’s demonstrated

Through him. We have also obtained access by faith into his grace in which we stand and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us. For while we were still weak, at the right time, Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person, though perhaps for a

Good person, one would dare even to die. But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since therefore we’ve now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. That’s consistent with 1 Thessalonians 1:10. For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his son, much more now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. Notice, Dr. Lake, the connection there between the death of Christ being what reconciles a person, but then his life saved by his life. that encompasses

The fact that Hebrews 7 gets into this. That he lives forever to make intercession and he holds his priesthood permanently because of what? His indestructible life. No, we’re not saying Christ doesn’t intercede, sir. But verse 11, more than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ through whom we now have we have now received reconciliation. This does not comport with Ellen White’s claim that faith plus works reconciles a person to God. No, there is no tension in scripture around Jesus and the sinner’s doing uh uh sinner’s doings,

Reconciling a person to God. And the Apostle Paul most certainly did not disparage good works. But good works come from being freed in Christ, raised to spiritual newness of life, being born again. And it’s on the basis of Jesus Christ alone that one is reconciled to God through his perfect person and work. This is perfectly consistent with Paul’s own theology such as in Ephesians. The spirit is given as the seal and down payment of a person’s inheritance in Christ. Same thing as verse 5 here. The Holy Spirit has been given to us. Our seal unto the day of redemption. The

Down payment. The guarantee. The guarantee. Sir, Lutheran agree with this by the way and they believe you can forfeit your salvation. So the issue is not once saved always saved or these other red herrings that you guys like to point to. No, Lutheran agree with this. Not will be, not potentially, not maybe based on uh a to be determined loyalty. No, the Holy Spirit applies the redemptive work of Christ. you just pointed out in Ephesians 1 where it says God forordained those that were predestined. He forordained the good works that they walk out in. Ah, Dr.

Lake, that sounds like a God who uh knows his people, which is another huge problem for your guys’ whole system. But no, my good works do not supplement this, sir. And I’m offended when people say, and and the reason I’m being this way, I’ll preface by this is because you’re a scholar, sir. You’re a scholar. You know that I will shoot it straight to you. Just like I’ve told you, shoot it straight. Don’t play these games. Don’t hide behind, you know, whatever. Don’t hold any punches. This is life or death. Your own church, your own organization said

The same thing on your website. That’s what you guys teach. So, you need to be honest and forthright. Say, “Yeah, you need to get the heck out of Dodge. You need to come join us. We’re the remnant. We know who our what our identity is. This is what we believe. We’re going to defend it and we stand by it.” Don’t label people like that. Hyperconservatives off in the corner somewhere, some fringe. No, no. That That’s your pioneers. That’s your founders. But I’m offended when people say that their good works supplement what Jesus did. I’m not against good works.

Christian life is marked by charity, confession, penance in terms of not what necessarily Roman Catholics are saying, but being penitent, having conviction over your sin, etc. Yeah, the Christian life is marked by those things. I’m against saying that faith plus your good works reconcile you when that’s not what scripture says. And it demotes the work of Jesus Christ, some of which you guys attribute to Satan, the bearing of sin away. But it demotes the work of Christ. That’s why it’s an insult to God and it’s an insult to his grace to think that Christ can’t save people without

You meeting some sort of conditions to enable him to be a savior. No. The Jesus of the Bible is a powerful savior. Sir, pulled me out of the gutter. I’d be in I’d be dead and in hell right now if if Christ wouldn’t have saved me. That’s how radical my conversion was. And I’m not being hyperbolic. And I’m not being trying to sound spiritual. I mean dead serious. I’m as serious as a heart attack. I thought I was going to die the night that I got saved. And I knew in that moment when Christ manifested his presence to me, not physically, but I knew who it was and he saved me.

And there’s nothing I can do to add to that. And he actually saved me. He didn’t make something a possibility because I heard about some good news about the law being exalted. I already knew all that nonsense from Adventism. This was real. This was different. This was substantive. It powerful comes in. Boom. I’m not saying everyone’s conversion is like that. I’m just telling you that’s where I’m coming from. So this idea that I don’t think Christ changes people. I was a drug addict. I was selling drugs. I was a I’m partying. I was raving. I was on all sorts of drugs. I was

Addicted to porn. I was I was in a horrible place. I dropped out of school. I was in a terrible place. And if I would have kept going down that path, I’d be dead. Literally, I would be dead today, more than likely. So, I get offended when I hear this sort of, “No, we just believe.” No, you don’t believe that. Don’t tell people that’s what you guys believe and try and equate that to those of us that do actually believe this and do actually understand this and have experienced this and then you try and mingle it with Adventism, which can’t even give a person that.

Notice Paul says that having been made right with God through faith, reconciled to him on the basis of Jesus Christ, a person who faces persecution can take hope because persecution produces character and endurance. He doesn’t say that this character is imparted to you in gradual. No, he says God uses means namely persecution. It’s the same thing we see in Philippians 1:29. He’s granted not only that you believe, but be persecuted for his sake. That’s what builds character. Not trying your hardest to keep the law to gradually have Christ’s merits

Imparted to you as you meet the conditions and do your part to eventually get to a point where you fulfill the law yourself. He doesn’t say, “And this character development, if you get to a perfectly identical character to Jesus, maintains your peace with God.” I’m going to keep hammering this until hopefully one day you guys might get it. I want you to be saved. Some of you guys, you may not know this. I have a I have a list of specific names of some Adventist, specific Adventist leaders. I’m determined to see you saved. So, we’re going to keep I’m going to

Keep shooting it straight. I’m going to keep being harsh in the in the sense of assertive and direct. I know Adventists don’t like that, but this is spiritual warfare. And I’m coming for some of you in the sense that I want you to be saved. Not making a threat. It’s not violence or anything like that. He said, “For those who were depending upon themselves, she always emphasized the gospel.” Dr. Lake Herbert Douglas already told us gospel is defined by the great controversy theme. Ellen emphasized your great controversy gospel. A more fitting term than trying

That you try to veil behind a biblical phrase everlasting gospel. No, you mean the great controversy gospel. The gospel to you guys is the idea that you need Jesus in order to fulfill the requirements of the law which vindicates God and shows that you’re safe to save. Without him, you wouldn’t be able to. The law and the gospel embi the same principle in your guys’ system. As Ellen White herself stated, Desire of Ages, page 608, quote, Christ had repeatedly shown that his father’s law contains something deeper than mere authoritative commands. In the law is embodied the

Same principle that’s revealed in the gospel. The law points out man’s duty and shows him his guilt. Yeah, correct. To Christ must look for pardon and for the power to do what the law enjoys. There is where it slips. That’s what you mean by this, Dr. Lake. What I have put forth as my criticism is exactly what you guys teach by way of the great controversy worldview. Ellen’s saying it. Herb Douglas is saying it. Ministry magazine is saying it. The Review and Herald is saying it. ML Andreas is saying it. And you yourself are saying it, but you’re trying to use very vague

Christianes language to make it sound like I don’t know what I’m talking about. Then he cited Ephesians 2:8. Yes, we looked at Ephesians 1 earlier, Dr. Lake, and Ephesians 2:8-9. But remember, it says salvation is a gift. Your prophetus says it’s a reward for your loyalty and obedience to the law. Paul also isn’t saying what Ellen did in testimonies volume 4. That faith plus your works reconcile you to God. Paul taught the work of Christ alone does this and it’s applied to a person through faith which is the means by which the Holy Spirit applies Christ’s

Benefits to a person. When justification is applied by the Holy Spirit, a person is sealed unto the day of redemption. Ephesians 1:13. Then they are moved to the next step, sanctification. This is not a period where one is now on probation, a second probation to maintain what the Holy Spirit initially implied or or applied. Yet, that’s what your guys’ system teaches. Through the gradual impartation of Christ’s merits, you essentially increase your justification leading to eventually being esqueologically justified to use the words of your fellow SDA

Scholastics. But no, you guys are medieval in your sotiology at this point. Which is why it’s wild that you guys claim to be heirs of the Reformation. It’s like the ridiculousness of Roy Gain. I have an article from Ministry magazine where Roy Ga is trying to argue that pre 1525 Luther and early John Calvin affirm the same thing they believe about justification and sanctification. He cites Calvin’s Institutes book three. We’re going to be doing a video on this by the way. I’m waiting to hear back from my guest who’s going to be very qualified to speak on this. He tried to

Point to Calvin’s institutes book three to say look Calvin affirms this you go to book three and he’s you want to talk about taking things out of context it’s the literal thing he’s arguing against because you guys have a medieval sotiology like the irony man the irony good works then flow out of the Holy Spirit applying justification which is why I can know I have peace with God right now while still recognizing that I haven’t had glorification appi replied yet and I still fall short of the glory of God which is why I pray the Lord’s prayer daily. I try to pray it three times a

Day but it’s solely because of Christ. You guys do not teach this, sir. You don’t affirm solless Christo. Notice sons and daughters. Page 156. Quote, “Will man take hold of divine power and with determination and perseverance resist Satan as Christ has given him example in his conflict with the foe in the wilderness of temptation?” Remember the fundamental belief that that said Jesus is the example. That means something very specific. He’s laying out exactly what you have to do. you have to get to that perfect condition he was in. So when they look at Jesus, they’re

Really looking back at themselves. She continues, “God cannot save man against his will from the power of Satan’s artififices. Man must work with his human power aided by the divine power of Christ to resist and to conquer at any cost to himself.” In short, man must overcome as Christ overcame. And then through the victory that is his privilege to gain by the all powerful name of Jesus, he may become an heir of God and joint heir with Jesus Christ. This could not be the case if Christ alone did all the overcoming. Man must do his part. He must be victor

On his own account through the strength and grace that Christ gives him. Man must be a co-worker with Christ in the labor of overcoming and then he will be partaker with Christ in his glory. Close quote. Don’t try and tell us it’s all of grace through faith. You mean that Jesus made something possible and had he not done that, it wouldn’t be possible. He was gracious in giving you a second probation and the opportunity to take hold of the divine power to overcome Satan and silence his accusations. You come to him and get a clean slate to now do your best as a co-laborer with Christ

To try and get to a condition which vindicates God in the great controversy. That’s what one must do to be saved. You yourself just talked about being a co-laborer. And this is what you guys are talking about. No, I falter. I’m feeble, imperfect, fallen. Jesus is perfectly faithful, unwavering, unstained. No, he didn’t doubt his resurrection on the cross with his passive obedience being wavering. It’s his representation before the father in my place. That’s the sole basis of my right standing. and I have his promise by means of the Holy Spirit that I’m sealed unto the day of

Redemption. Now I’m to walk out in good works, not to maintain anything, but because of my new desires by being made a new creature in Christ. Christians can consistently say that we try our best, but we have the solace that Jesus is sufficient and we’re ultimately resting and secure in him. You guys cannot. Your system demands sinless perfectionism, but you ignored verses 1 and 2 in Ephesians 2, which say a person is born dead in sins and trespasses, sir. Something you guys don’t teach because of your anthropological monism. You don’t think man is born with

Anything dead. He’s just a bag of of meat with breath. But that’s key to this entire chain of Paul’s thought. Until God raises the spiritually dead sinner to spiritual life, they can’t do any good works. But once God regenerates, they’re then seen as righteous strictly on the basis of Christ. They then walk out in good works as a result of this taking place. Because when you’re born again, you now have new desires. The other aspect you guys don’t understand is that people are born a slave to sin, a hater of God. There’s this idea of age of accountability in Adventism. I know it’s

Not unique to them, but they have this idea that, well, people are kind of like neutral until they get to No, they’re not. No, you were born default kingdom of darkness, a slave to sin, fallen in Adam, and then when you’re born again, you now have new desires. You’ll have SDAs that are like, “Well, why would you have good works then if they don’t, you know, maintain or they don’t play a part in salvation?” Uh, because you have new desires. has nothing to do with I don’t do good works thinking oh this maintains no but furthermore the goal of the gospel sir

Was given to you in verse 10 and it’s not that God vindicates himself from accusations of Satan but to bring glory to himself there’s no tension in that paricopy if reconciliation and peace with God came by faith plus a person’s obedience there would be something to boast about you were more obedient you were more spiritual whatever You just have to recognize proper categories. But then he brought up Calvinism.

Brother, Dr. Lake, you are digging deep in the bag, my friend. You are now almost entirely out of all of the standard claims and defenses. You are pulling out every possible boogeyman that you can. Out of context, not reading broadly enough, Calvinism, etc. Sir, you guys have really got to start listening. Our audience is a mixed bag, a very diverse bag. Not a single one of my objections rests on Calvinism. Not a single one. And every time you guys say this, you evidence you don’t know the objections. Which is why my common response is always, “Oh, interesting. I didn’t

Realize Lutheran were Calvinists.” When I left the SDA church over a decade ago, I inherited the same disdain for reformed theology that the SDA pioneers had. Yet, my objections were the same as they are today because it has nothing to do with Calvinism, which is just a boogeyman that you guys try and use to dismiss valid criticisms. Lutheran believe you can forfeit your salvation, sir. They still disagree with you guys because that’s not the issue or the objections I’ve raised. And Lutheran aren’t Calvinist or Armenian. And they don’t have a false god or a false

Gospel. God bless the Lutheran the the Lutheran uh Lutheran tradition. And I don’t care what a group of scholars are or aren’t doing as it pertains to reformed theology. That’s irrelevant to the fact that you can’t demonstrate from scripture that prior to the creation of the earth, Jesus was exalted to be made equal with the father, which made Lucifer jealous. He rebelled, attacked the ten commandments, leading to a war in heaven. and Lucifer becoming Satan where he then was kicked to the earth where he then tempted man. Man fell and Jesus incarnated to silence

Satan’s accusations demonstrate that the law can be kept and can’t be changed. Demonstrating also that fallen man can keep the law as well and silence Satan vindicating God’s character which is the ultimate goal of the gospel supposedly.

No, that has nothing to do with Calvinism. You’re saying this because you and I have talked. You know I affirm the Westminster confession. We’ve talked about your studies at RTS. So you’re trying to make it seem like my objections are only valid if someone affirms Calvinism. Well, tell that to the vast majority of our audience who aren’t Calvinists and agree with my objections and see exactly what I’m saying. My my partner in answering Adventism, Chris, is not a Calvinist. Lots of Armenian and provisionist leaning folks consume our content, sir.

Lots of Roman Catholics and Orthodox, etc. Lots of people who don’t even know what systematic theology they align with, but simply love the true Christ and the gospel. Nowhere have I ever objected by saying Adventist theology is false because it’s Armenian. Nowhere have I said Armenians have a false gospel. Nowhere have I said only Calvinists or Christians or anything even close to that. In fact, this only further evidences you haven’t consumed much of what I’ve said because I’m constantly constantly saying the gospel is not systematic theology.

It’s not something unique to Calvinists, Armenians, Orthodox, whatever. It’s you guys that call the gospel a systematic theology. your entire system. Armenians don’t have a great controversy worldview, sir. Which is why when you guys try and appeal to John Wesley to say you’re all you’re Wesleian. No, you’re not. And I’m trying to get Roger Olsen, arguably the leading Armenian of our day, to come on here to test this wild claim to see if he agrees with your guys’ hijacking of the Armenian name. You can’t consistently have assurance within the SDA theological framework.

You and I have talked about this before and it isn’t simply because you guys think you can lose your salvation. My mind has not been changed. It’s not been demonstrated that the logic I have presented based on the primary source documents is invalid because it isn’t. Your final destiny is determined by how well you do. If you confess every sin you’ve committed upon making a profession of faith such that it’s shown that you’re safe to save and God can lawfully save you. As Ellen said, loyalty or disloyalty, that will determine your eternal fate. Not trying

Your best, that’s not loyalty. Because remember, if you aren’t keeping the law, it’s because you don’t want to, not that you can’t. Because after the investigative judgment, Ellen White talked about the courtroom scene where Jesus will be advocating for those who make it through the investigative judgment and Satan will be there accusing. Jesus will only be able to advocate for those who got to a sinlessly perfect state and be able to show their book is clean and dealt with in the in the investigative judgment, which will silence Satan’s accusations.

If a person hasn’t done that, Satan’s accusation would stand and Jesus wouldn’t be able to lawfully save them. So, he’s only advocating for those who make it through the investigative judgment. You don’t know if your name has come up yet. You don’t know if there’s a sin you’ve forgotten to confess that’s still upon your record. No. Armenians would not agree with this simply because they think you can lose your salvation. You are using their name to Trojan horse. You’re trying to make it seem like Adventists are evangelicals like everyone else. No, you’re not. That’s

Partly why this platform exists. You guys are a sheepstealing organization that tries to appear Protestant so you can proitize Christians to come join you. But you all don’t want this pointed out so Adventists will cry persecution for highlighting it even though it’s true. The problem is not Arminianism versus Calvinism. And I know you all have trained the ley to red herring this, but that’s what it is. A red herring, a distraction, a rabbit trail away from the substance of what’s actually being levied, which is that your world view and how it twists the Bible. It twists

What the Bible actually says about the person and work of Christ, your extra biblical pre-earth origin story that Herb Douglas already told us informs all areas of Adventist thought and theology, including defining all the terms that you’ve used thus far. show us this from the Bible. You can’t You can’t show us a single church father, pre or postnine. You can’t show us a single medieval father or a desert father. You can’t show us a single scholastic father. You can’t show us a single Protestant reformer, a single Puritan or a single Wesian that had your

Guys’ worldview. Have I made myself clear at this point? Med Calvinists and the Armenian. That’s been a a conflict uh for several hundred years now. But it’s there are these two themes in evangelicalism today. And Adventist clearly fall on the side of the Armenian, more particularly in the Wesley and the the framework of John Wesley. Ellen White grew up in the American version of John Wesley’s church, the Methodist Episcopal Church, and mentored from John Wesley. And Wesley clearly taught salvation. Yet one can choose to walk away from Christ. But

I would argue it is and and many Adventists need to understand this. It is harder to lose salvation than many people think. Christ is not going to let you go that easy. Dr. Lake, I honestly wonder what you guys would do if I were a Lutheran in my theology. You’d have nowhere to go on this front. I guess you just wouldn’t use this this this argument. you’d have one less uh you know standard excuse to to pull out of the the the caricature bag. But they’re not Armenian or Calvinist and yet they can spot your guys’ inability to distinguish between law and gospel

Probably better than anyone else. He said, “It’s harder to lose your salvation than you think.” Wow, what a statement. What a statement. So much I could say here, but sir, once again, we’re going to show no, this is not the case from your own prophetus. Again, manuscript releases, volume 12, page 40. Quote, “Do not appeal to your own sympathies. Do not dwell upon what brother Jay has done or has neglected to do. Humble your own heart before God. You’re not to sit in judgment upon the case of others until you show greater wisdom in making straight paths for your

Own feet. You may say, “Does Sister White think me all bad?” No, I do not. But one blot upon the character, one sin unconfessed and unrepented of will close for you the gates of the city of God. Close quote. This gentleman was asking about the sanctification of another individual and Ellen White told him that he needs to focus on his own sanctification because one single blot upon the character will close the gates of the city of God to you. A single blot, sir. Is this some unique standard only for that one individual? Earlier Dr. Lake said Jesus stands in

His place. Imputation’s a part of this gospel. Yeah. Yeah. And that imputation isn’t enough to be seen as righteous in God’s sight. Sir, you have to get to a totally sinless state through impartation as well. Which is why it’s totally meaningless and just lip service that you guys try and say you uphold imputation. No, you hold to an initial imputation of initial clean slate. That cleans your slate. But what you really mean is if you try your hardest to get to a totally sinless state with not a single blot on your character, that’s what ultimately matters. And this

All circles back to silencing Satan who said it can’t be done and God vindicating himself. Again, Christ in his sanctuary, page 157. Quote, in the parable of Matthew 22, the same figure of the marriage is introduced and the investigative judgment is clearly represented as taking place before the marriage. Previous to the wedding, the king comes in to see the guests to see if all are attired in the wedding garment ah that Dr. Lake mentioned earlier. The spotless robe of character washed and made white in the blood of the lamb. Matthew 22:11, Revelation

7:14. He who is found wanting is cast out, but all who upon examination are seen to have the wedding garment on are accepted of God and accounted worthy of a share in his kingdom and a seat upon his throne. This work of examination of character of determining who are prepared for the kingdom of God, a prepared people is that of the investigative judgment, the closing work of the sanctuary or in the sanctuary above. Close quote. So remember the desire of ages statement and Herb Douglas using that phrase a prepared people. This is perfectly in line with both. One

Must attain to a perfect character totally free from any spot or blemish in order to make it through the investigative judgment which John Pauline told us in contours is synonymous with the atonement in SDA theology. You aren’t clothed in Christ’s righteousness until your character is totally free from any blemish. That’s the garment. That’s what being clothed in Christ’s righteousness is in this system. Not having some of it imparted to you and you’re trying your best. No, no, no, no. You have to get to a point where enough has been imparted that the law is now

Fulfilled in you and you mirror Jesus perfectly in a condition exactly how he was in. And those people will be able to stand during the time of trouble. Those will be the ones that Jesus advocates for. Those will be the one vindicating God to the world, showing that the law can be kept, not trying your best. The investigative judgment, which they call the atonement, is to see who’s arrived at this perfected character that mirrors Jesus identically, having enough of his merited righteousness imparted to them such that they’re keeping the law perfectly, fulfilling its demands. And

It’s those individuals, Dr. Lake, that are found worthy of the atoning benefits of Christ’s sacrifice. You’re only prepared for the kingdom if you’ve arrived at the same condition Jesus is in. So, I don’t know, maybe you’re one of these Adventists that glows in the dark. You’re so holy that you glow. But the rest of us, we’re not as holy and perfect as you are. Once again, Testimonies for the Church, Volume Five, quote. No one uh uh not one of us will ever receive the seal of God while our characters have one spot or stain upon them. It is left to it’s left with us to

Remedy the defects of our characters to cleanse the soul temple of every defilement. Then the latter rain ah like I mentioned earlier will fall upon us as the early rain fell upon the disciples on the day of Pentecost. Close quote. Yeah, I’m taking stuff out of context. I don’t know this system. Again, a single spot or stain upon the character will keep one from receiving the seal of God. the se the seventh day Sabbath. So even if you’re observing the Sabbath, Dr. Lake, if you have a single spot or stain on your character, you won’t be sealed and saved. It’s left up to you to

Remedy the defects of your character with Jesus’s help. A co- lababorer, which is how sin is defined in your guys’ system, character blotss. But I actually agree with you, Dr. Lake. It’s hard to lose something you don’t have. In Adventist theology, no one has salvation yet. You hope you’ll be saved. You don’t know that you have present tense eternal life. You can’t have eternal life right now in your guys’ system because when you die, you’ll cease to exist and then the next waking moment will be at either the good resurrection or the bad resurrection.

But there was a ton of time that went on between that point and when you died. No. If you have eternal life right now, like first John 5 says, and Jesus taught in John 5, that means I have eternal life now. Right now, when I die, I’m going to go to be with the Lord and then await the day where glorification is applied and I’m reunited with my body to live in a physical body forever with the Lord. You guys have the hope that you’ll make it. But for all you know, your name could still be on the docket to be investigated and your sin still stands against you. And for all you know, your

Name could have already come up and you failed. The choice is up to the individual. Paul talks about grace. Grace is we’re in an era of grace since Christ has come and salvation is so near to all. Christ offers his his life for us, his righteousness for us, his death on the cross. All we need to do to accept it. And that is the basis and foundation of our salvation throughout our entire Christian experience. But the beauty of the gospel is it doesn’t leave you where Christ finds you. It changes you. It transforms you by the indwelling grace of God. That’s the beauty of

Justification. Righteousness and sanctification. Righteousness. Justification is something that’s the foundation. Uh that imputed righteousness of Christ. It will never leave us. We can never be without it. It’s the basis of our assurance. But sanctification is that work that uh of of Christ making us more and more like him. The indwelling Holy Spirit that is the work of a lifetime and will really never end until glorification at the second coming whether it be translation or resurrection. Uh that’s that’s the beauty of the gospel. It changes us. It

Transforms us. It empowers us to live a new life. A new life. In fact, as I read uh various evangelical understandings of the gospel, one that I really like uh by Daryl Bach, who’s a well-known New Testament scholar, he says this, “The gospel is about entry into a relationship with God in which he empowers and enables us to live in a fallen world, in which there’s a lot of pressure, in a way that is honoring to God and faithful to him. And in that walk of that life, God is well represented of how we live. So it’s a new relationship, a transforming

Relationship. He says that is the core of the gospel as we see it in the early church. And that’s in a presentation where he’s discussing the gospel in the context of the book of acts. So this is what you find. And one other uh uh evangelical theologian Michael Gohane articulates the gospel in a way that Adventists would resonate with. He says that the gospel it’s about the fulfillment of a long story that’s being narrated in the Old Testament and finds its its fulfillment in the New Testament in the Christ event. He says the gospel is is about the goal of cosmic history.

It’s about the restoration of the entire creation and all of human life which takes place at the end of the book of Revelation and that promise of the earth made new. what shall we say a comprehensive nutshell but that’s a nutshell of the gospel of seventh day adventist understand it I believe and and the gospel that I have read in Adventist literature and advent scholarship and I’ve taught myself and let more appealing to evangelicals sir who is saying the gospel doesn’t transform people again more statements that deal with nothing I’ve objected Do

I talk about new creation constantly? The irony of this is you didn’t include being born again in your presentation. You haven’t mentioned that at all anywhere because your fundamental beliefs book doesn’t even mention it.

I’ve shared my testimony with you before how I had a radical conversion. I’ve never once said, “The gospel doesn’t change people.” You’re not engaging with anything that this platform has said. Yet, this is supposed to be a response to us. At this point, there’s really not much else to say in this area. I cannot make it any more clear. But then he mentioned glorification taking place at the second coming, and people will struggle with sin until then. Yeah, Dr. Lake, once again, you’re out of step with Ellen White. Not only because of the entire paradigm

Around needing to silence Satan and her saying that if you aren’t keeping the law perfectly, it’s not because you can’t, but because you won’t, but because notice, sons and daughters, again, page nine, quote, we’re not to settle down expecting that a change of character will come to us by some miraculous work when Jesus shall appear in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. No, my young friends. We’re judgment bound and probation is granted to us here in this life in order that we may form characters for the future immortal life. Close quote. A change of what, Dr.

Lake? Character. Ah, consistent with what we just read in testimonies for the church volume 5. Your current probationary period is for you to get to a point where you’re perfectly sinless right now because your character is locked in after probation closes. Your character for eternity because nothing about your character will change at the second coming. She says this is the condition you must be found in when the time of trouble starts or you won’t make it. Identical to Jesus, sir. It’s the condition you have to be in in order to silence Satan and

Vindicate God. Christopher Jud, are you guys sinlessly perfect? I I guess Ellen White’s now considered fringe hyperconservative Adventists. Dr. Lake and then like clockwork more appealing to evangelicals to bolster Adventism. Nope. Daryl Bach and Michael Gohane don’t have an extra biblical great controversy worldview that defines everything for them. Dr. lake, you seem to only want to focus on vague generalities, the nutshell. And that since you and and that since you guys agree with these generalities, the restoration of all things, intercession,

Restoration, that thought that therefore validates or vindicates Adventist theology as being safe. I get that you only have a limited time, but the nutshell isn’t my objection. I’ve been very, very clear about mine, very consistent with what they’ve been for over a decade, long before this platform existed. while I was a student of yours. You guys claimed this was a response to me, but we’re over halfway through your guys’s entire response, almost finished with this section, and there hasn’t been one single interaction and meaningful engagement with anything that I’ve said.

Just a lot of assuming regarding me bringing the same criticisms everybody else has. the legalism charge, the Calvinist boogeyman, the or just Armenians battlecry, and all the other standard defenses that not only miss the mark, but deal with nothing that I’ve said, the great controversy worldview being necessary for you, for you guys. Yet, it isn’t biblical and it’s not validated or proven to be biblical because you decry Calvinism. Total nonsequiter. trying to appeal to John Wesley in Armenianism does not vindicate the great controversy worldview.

A book that I would suggest that many who watch this, you should read, especially if you’re a 7th Day Adventist and especially for those like Miles who want to engage with Adventist theology about salvation and the gospel. It’s this book. It’s called Salvation Contours of Adventist Soterology by 7th Day Adventist Scholars. It covers all the major aspects of salvation, the gospel, the nature of sin, the atonement of Christ completed at the cross, the atonement in heaven. All of those aspects are dealt with here. If anybody wants to engage Adventism on the gospel,

This is the definitive book to read. And Miles, I commend him. He’s one of the first critics I’ve seen that seriously engage with Adventist scholarship, but he needs to do it fairly and comprehensively, and that book should be on his list for reading. So, in a nutshell, that’s the Adventist understanding of the gospel as I see it.

You mean the book I literally just got done citing from earlier, which tells us that you guys mean the investigative judgment when you refer to the atonement because you guys actually affirm a completed but incomplete atonement. Come on, man. Sir, you’re going to have to get out of bed a lot sooner than that cuz I’ve got your guys’s number. You know it. I know it. The audience knows it. And we all know that you all know it. I know the right questions to ask and the vague Christian word salads to try and appear a certain way won’t work on me. Been there, done that. Got

The t-shirt. You need to define terms, not not point to weighty scholastic works. We can all play that game. Look, I’ve also got Hugh Martin’s The Atonement, which is a very complex scholastic type work. I’ve got John Owens, The Death of Death and the Death of Christ. I’ve got Owen’s entire commentary set, the the the largest work on the book of Hebrews, which arguably the largest section of New Testament literature on the atonement, thousands and thousands of pages. So, what what’s your point? Is it really your contention that contours drastically departs from

Traditional Adventist sotiology? No, it doesn’t. We just s I literally when I saw you say this, sir, I’m like, wow. Wow. I’m literally just going to pull out the exact quote that mirrors exactly the Ellen White quote, which is what we looked at tonight. Doesn’t drastically change. And when you guys change window dressing around like you did from the 19th to the 21st centuries, it doesn’t fundamentally change anything. It changes the veneer. It gives a facelift, but it’s still the same structure, which is again why this platform focuses on the foundational

Issues, not tertiary ones. Second, I also have your book. I cite George Knight’s search for identity constantly. I have insight from the SDA Bible commentary. I site from countless primary source materials from scholastic works down to ley publications from the 19th to the 21st centuries. And it doesn’t matter because Adventists that have their livelihoods staked on Adventism being correct will dismiss it as being out of context and not comprehensively well read. Sir, I appreciate the honest recognition. many Adventists could learn from you and

Hopefully this will put an end to some of the silly claims that some in your ranks make to cope such that I know absolutely nothing about 7th Day Adventist theology. I’m totally clueless. Literally everything I say is a lie. But my the irony, the irony, you haven’t addressed a single objection that this platform has raised. You haven’t meaningfully engaged with anything that I’ve put forth. I’ve cited 10 times the amount of SDA scholarship than you have to support my claims in this single broadcast alone. But I’m the one I’m the one that needs to be more well read and comprehensive.

Dr. Lake, no offense, sir, but I feel like I’m educating you on SDA theology. or you’re being dishonest like when you said everyone will struggle with sin until glorification despite your prophetist saying the exact opposite. Yeah. Go and look at at at sons and daughters. Yeah. See if I’m taking it out of context, January 3rd. That’s the that’s the day for because that book is a 365 book. So much so that a single blot on the character will close up heaven for you. And this is central to your guys’ system. silencing Satan is dependent upon uh uh dependent

Upon that and God being vindicated. You call this hyperconservatism when no it’s consistent Adventism. Consistent. See, here’s the thing, Dr. Lake. I have to try to be as learned as I can across the board. Not just with my own theology, not with Seventh Day Adventism, but with Islam, Mormonism, atheism, Hinduism, etc. Because I do apologetics across the board, sir. I I did I did street apologetics for seven years prior to starting answering Adventism where I had to be prepared to defend the Christian faith at the roll of the dice, so to speak. Didn’t know

What I was going to get. Hari Krishna’s, Hindus, Buddhists, Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons. But you guys don’t have to do that. you sit in your theological ivory towers and make statements like this that quite frankly I don’t even take seriously. I’m not the one that has a bunch of letters from the alphabet added to my name and I’m not one to typically pat my own back on this one. But I will this time because if there’s one thing I am, it’s comprehensively read. I have a vast library of works, sir, that not only include works like the Bad

Vagita, which I’ve read, the Quran, the Book of Mormon, etc., but also the Roman Catholic Catechism, the Antonyine Fathers, and countless other works of other Christian traditions. So, don’t give me that. Don’t give me that. Deal with what I’m saying. Stop hiding behind 400page books and general theological terms and phrases and engage with my very pointed and very specific arguments. You did this the last time that I reached out to you trying to get some information. I asked him about how did the blood of Christ get transferred to the sanctuary?

Was it in his body? Is it external to him? Or h how exactly does that work? What do he do? He pointed me to more weighty scholastic works. Okay. Thanks for for sending me some works that I wasn’t aware of. No, they didn’t answer it. Demonstrate that I’m aligning the sources that I’m citing and abusing. Demonstrate that I haven’t accurately accurately represented the great controversy worldview that I’ve not only studied very comprehensively, but I lived it by actually having one for two decades. The SDA church has a false gospel because the SDA church has the great

Controversy worldview, which is an extra-biblical antichrist paradigm that presents a different Jesus who isn’t real and can’t save anyone, which necessarily results in a false gospel. Because the true gospel, as we saw in Galatians 1:12, was given by the real Christ to the apostles and handed down to us today. It’s not a present truth only for this time gospel that only you guys have. Don’t try and tell me that I’m not read comprehensively, that I’m taking stuff out of context, etc., when I’ve read probably tenfold SDA literature, that the average 7th Day Adventist has.

Dr. Lake, I’m grateful that you love Christ Jesus as he’s both the creator and savior. And that reminds me of what Peter says in his second epistle. Peter states, “But grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever. Amen.” Dr. Lake, you made a similar statement on growth in your book Ellen White Under Fire, where you said, “We as a people still have a lot of self-educating and growing to do. There are other mistakes we need to work on as well.” To those who once were a part of us but who got discouraged because of an

Oppressive use of Ellen White’s writings, all I can say is that I’m sorry. What you experienced was not right or fair to you as a human being made in the image of God. So with that in mind, Dr. Lake, how can the 7th Day Adventist Christian Church grow in terms of its presentation of the gospel? Yeah, Dr. Lakes’s quote does not apply to me. Before we hear from Jud Christopher, that statement has zero application to me. But it would not be an SDA response if there wasn’t the classic implication that I left because of other SDAs not loving me enough and oppressive use of

Ellen White’s writings in my life, etc. Christopher, I was raised in a pretty milktoast Midwestern SDA household. I did not have an oppressive use of Ellen White’s writings going on. I wasn’t abused in any way, shape, or form for that matter. Not just by my parents, but by any Adventist. I’ve said constantly, Adventists, for the most part, are genuine people, sincere people. My SDA pastor father would align with your guys’ stream of Adventism, not this hyperconservative current that Dr. Lake mentioned. But I’ve stated I don’t know how many times I have excellent memories

In Adventism. Still have lots of SDA friends and family. I chose to go to an SDA university after having left Adventism. So my entire track record diffuses the smokec screen. Adventists just don’t like that. I’m bold and assertive and direct and that I’m right. Sorry, in my completely totally unbiased opinion. So, they equate that with being hurt, bitter, etc. No, I’m passionate about this. I’m passionate about Adventists coming to know the truth. I’m passionate about seeing God’s kingdom grow. All of this stuff about being hurt or abused is just noise. It’s noise. It’s

Not a It’s not an apologetic. It’s a distraction that deals with nothing that’s said because SDAs have to cope because they can’t deal with what’s actually being presented. So, they try and make it about the person and not the substance of what the person presents. I have Jud Lakes’s book. Yes, I know that quote and I about pulled a cornea rolling my eyes as hard as I possibly could after hearing that for about the 15 millionth time. But for those who have been riding with this platform for any length of time, you can see how flimsy this is. But this is what the SDA

Church has to resort to. It’s what David Trim at the statistics department put out regarding their hemorrhaging numbers. It can’t possibly be that their theology is flawed. Damnably so. It has to be anything other than that. So they roll with the idea that it’s because people were people were hurt and they left. And those of us that that were supposedly, you know, super hurt apparently start organizations like Answering Adventism in retaliation. Meanwhile, the mountain of theological issues presented still remains disengaged, ignored, and so on. I left

Over theology. Period. Because my loyalty is to the truth, not an organization, not a tribe. It’s to Jesus, the true Jesus. And I care about logic, sound reasoning, consistency in theology and apologetic methodology. Looking at all of scripture, totas scriptor. Seventh day adventist theology is built upon all sorts of fallacies such as word association and textual verbatim fallacy. It contradicts the Bible in numerous areas as I’ve shown in numerous ways. It doesn’t have any real connection to the church in history. It was founded by a bunch of

Anti-trinitarian, anti-gosspel heretics who couldn’t execute the Bible to save their lives. And even outside of the heretical stuff, there is a mountain of other theological aspects I disagree with that I don’t even voice from this platform or fault the SDA church for. I have been very vocal about being about why I left Adventism. Even when I was a student of Dr. Lake, I told him this. So, it doesn’t matter if Adventists cope and tell themselves I’m lying or whatever. You have a terrible character. You don’t you don’t you’re not Christlike or whatever you want to tell

Yourself. Sure. Sure. Make yourself feel better. You haven’t engaged or dealt with anything presented. My homework is out there for people to examine. And they do. And we hear from numerous people every week from all over the world who are examining it for themselves and they come to the same conclusions and leave because of the heretical theology of the movement. Well, I can’t help but think of George Knight’s prolific Adventist historian, uh, his statement that he’s he’s met Adventist vegetarians meaner than the devil. Well, I’ve met some of those, too. And that is a most

Unfortunate witness. Cold, mean-spirited advent mean-spirited Adventist. They’re around. I don’t believe that represents the majority of Adventists, but there’s enough of them that they seem to make an impact. I think of Ellen White’s statement in Ministry of Healing, page 477 or poor, excuse me, page 470. The strongest argument in favor of the gospel is a loving and lovable Christian. That Christopher, that’s how we can improve our presentation of the gospel. Not just proclaim the gospel, but to be the gospel. I think of Michael Gorman, theologian Michael Gorman in his his

Excellent book, Becoming the Gospel, Paul Participation and Mission, published in 2015, he argues that that we shouldn’t just participate in the gospel, but we should become the gospel. That’s what Adventists should do. You know, we get caught up in doctrine apart from life so often. And that has created this bad witness to be loving and lovable people. Maybe we need to stop arguing theology sometimes and just live our faith. Dr. Lake, I’m on record numerous places, like I’ve said multiple times tonight, SDAs are typically wonderful people. They mean well, but they are deceived.

The entire reason this platform exists is because I care about adventists. I like SDA people, sir. If I hated SDAs, I’d say, “Ah, hell with it. Let them suffer. I won’t say anything. Have fun, suckers.” No, I’m actually willing to speak up, do so without wavering. State it how it is, and let the chips fall where they may. I’m seed scattering, sir, and the gospel field is ripe for the harvest regarding this overlooked people group, the Seventh Adventist. But after you’ve heard the you were hurt excuse for over a decade, it’s hard to not roll your eyes. This is par for the

Course. We’re back to talking about individual SDAs now and not the substance of what was presented, which is coming from primary source documentation, not random Joe Schmo mean-spirited Adventist somewhere. He cited Michael Gorman again. Dr. Lake, you just got done telling us that the gospel includes the investigative judgment. Michael Gorman doesn’t affirm the investigative judgment. None of these evangelicals that you’ve cited affirm the gospel that you affirm. You are doing word association fallacy. They do not mean the same thing as you. just because they

Use the same word gospel or intercession etc. And this circles us right back around to the whole of the matter. Philippians 1:27 through30 folks it’s clear only let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ so that whether I come and see you or am absent I may hear of you that you are standing firm in what? One spirit with one mind, striving side by side for the faith of the gospel and not frightened in anything by your opponents. This is a clear sign to them of their destruction, but of your salvation, and that from God. For it has been granted to you that for

The sake of Christ, you should not only believe in him, but also suffer for his sake, engaged in the same conflict that you saw I had and now here that I still have. Paul desires for the desired for the churches in Philippi. Oh, or sorry, let me start this over. Paul’s desire for the churches in Philippi was to hear that they were standing firm in one spirit and one mind on what? The gospel and to not be frightened of anything by your opponents. That’s you all Christopher and Jud laborers against the true gospel. And why is this? because we have the true

Gospel which is a clear sign to you of your destruction. But to us, it’s a sign of our salvation. That’s why you guys won’t engage at this level. We have the true gospel, the sign of your guys’s destruction and any other false gospel movement that’s out there. I’m not scared of any aspect of SDA SDA theology. None. And I concede nothing to this movement. Not the law, not the Sabbath, not sanctification, not obedience, none of it. You guys have an entirely unique gospel. Your organization has an entirely unique mission and message to take to the world

That no one else does, separate and distinct from the Christian church. Just like Aaron Cruz so plainly stated at the beginning, it is a present truth message that was uniquely given to you guys by God. Supposedly, it’s predicated upon an extra biblical paradigm. The great controversy that Herb Douglas said was not discovered by you guys through Bible study, but and drawn out from scripture. No, it was allegedly given to you all by God through Ellen White. It’s supposed to be the theological God particle, the antidote to theological division that

Distinguishes you guys from all of us confused and divided Babylonian Protestants. You all need to stop acting like you only believe the Bible. Stop trying to ride the coattails of others to veil yourselves under them to appear like just another Protestant denomination and own that you guys are your own distinct and separate thing just like your pioneers were bold enough to claim. It’s not 1980 anymore, fellas. You’re going to have to get with the times and catch up because this is a marathon and we’re about 15 miles in and you guys are still stretching and warming up.

You haven’t engaged with a single thing that I’ve objected to halfway through their response. All roads lead back to the great controversy worldview. Until you can demonstrate for us that this is derived from scripture, which your fellow scholars have already claimed it’s not. Then there will be no remedying of the problem, my objections will continue to stand. So to circle back to the question of your video, is the SDA church in trouble? Yes, it is. It’s in big trouble because the truth is undefeated. It’s not on your guys’ side. You guys can war

Against that all you want and war against what we’re doing here, but it’s not me that you’re waring against. It’s not my gospel. You’re kicking against the pricks, the true Christ, and his undefeated gospel. We’re doing something different over here, fellas. Not just in terms of critical analysis of Adventism, but the apologetic methodology, the arguments, the approach, and the mission. We’re getting the Christian church fired up about reaching Adventist, raising the general consciousness of the body of Christ, and having a blast doing it. In the process, Christ bride is being

Strengthened up, and lots of Adventists are leaving your movement and coming to know the beauty and truth of the real Christ and the real gospel. You guys can call that a shaking. You can say whatever you want to cope and make yourself feel better. Meanwhile, Christ’s kingdom is just growing and growing and growing. We’re we are laboring this gospel field hard every week all over the world. We hear about people reaching out pe all across the spectrum. Oh, I hated you at first. Oh, I couldn’t stand what you were saying, but then I went to fact check it and went to look

Into it and oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah. All sorts of people. Oh, I just decided to put the Ellen White down and just read the book of Galatians through. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the old biblical red pill, the book of Galatians. Just fight a nickel for every Adventist that read the book of Galatians and just just wow. Just screw that. Follow the Apostle Paul. Follow the Bible. That’s the beauty of understanding that Jesus is a savior. He actually saves people and he’s freely able to sufficiently do so. We simply trust and obey. We’re not in the predicament you guys

Are in. You have to fight and try and convince and all these sorts of things. I don’t have that issue. Christians don’t have that issue when they understand the gospel. We simply trust and obey taking his gospel to a movement that’s ripe for the harvest and has been overlooked. And it’s amazing what God is doing. Seriously, it’s like we’re in the gospel sun. Ah, it’s like spiritual jacuzzi, basking in the goodness of the gospel while Adventists are freezing over in the shadows of the hot tub, trying to convince themselves they’re in the jacuzzi.

Which is why it shouldn’t be shocking that people are fleeing Adventism for the true Christ and his gospel due to this platform’s efforts and saying, “Yeah, getting in the jacuzzi sounds a lot better than trying to fake like I’m in it when I’m freezing and miserable.” Yeah, hop on in. Plenty of room. plenty of room. I don’t care what happened to say. Oh, yeah. Because that’s the cheap grace gospel. Yeah. Okay. Keep sitting in the in the in the in the shade in the cold acting like you’re in the hot tub and trying to convince us you’re in the hot tub. No. What we have is real. It’s

Not manufactured like Adventism where everyone does this. You know, Christopher, you seem like a nice guy, man. But just if I’m being completely transparent, shooting it straight, you’re very plastic. You you just you have a very uh you just remind me a lot of Adventists that really try and just paint everything, you know, it just oh, everything’s No, no, it’s all facade. It’s all manufactured. Come join us. That’s our prayer. That is our prayer. But until then, my objections still stand not just on the great controversy, but on the false gospel of Adventism. You guys have a

False gospel. Doesn’t go back to the apostles. Has no basis in history. it is novel to the 19th century and you claim it’s a restoration of the fullness of the gospel that yada yada yada in the third and final part we will get into the fundamental belief number 18 the gift of prophecy and specifically Ellen White Dr. Lakes’s specific area of expertise. So, it should be interesting. We will get to that in a few weeks. May the triune God be glorified, his kingdom advance, and the enemy that is SDA theology be made a foottool under the feet of the Lord Jesus Christ in our

Lifetime. As always, until next time, Marinatha, God bless.