INTERVIEW: From SDA Youth Pastor to Freedom in Christ

All right brother thank you for being here let’s start things off by letting people know who you are and how were you introduced to the Seventh Adventist Church hi everybody my name is Pedro Gonzalez and I was born raised a 7 Aven and the 7 AVST family second generation uh my parents were dedicated members of the church and I was baptized at the John age of eight years of age growing up I attended uh Southern avus University a very well-known University and participated in church activities and I was actively involved in the church and youth group and all the

Things that pertain to uh the S AVST Church my family’s strong commitment to the church in this teaching uh had a profound impact on my spiritual developments in the age of eight years of age uh we’re talking about uh the Pathfinder to be involved in the Pathfinder we talked about the reality of the church like the youth group and and all groups that they do in the church and the whole N9 yards uh pertain to the uh Seventh Day Adventist yeah so you were essentially introduced to seventh day adventism then from a pretty young age then right yes that is correct yeah and so what was

Your experience in the movement like then was it positive was it negative you know um oftentimes when people leave the SDA Church there’s often a stigma around they left on bad terms somebody hurt them they weren’t loved enough those sorts of things so what was your experience in the movement like yeah my experience in the Adventist movement was largely positive from the age of eight meaning um I am that type of guy that I’m very I collaborate with people I participate in things I I don’t know how to say no to people and uh very heavily involved especially during my childhood

And teenagers um and I appreciate the strong uh community and the emphasis on a living Health style life and the whole thing that comes with it with with within adventism um I also value the church focus on education and Mission work and social justice and all the things pertaining to it however however As I Grew Older I began to struggle and and I want to make a distinction here so I started everything involved F Le in the age of eight the when I Grew Older I began to struggle with certain aspect of adventism when I turned probably 24 years of age I am 34 years of age quite

Some years certain aspects of adventism Theology and practice meaning I felt that something of the church teachings and traditions were not supported by scripture later on I’m going to uh unpack a few things that I wanted pertaining to to this discussion that we’re having and teachings and tradition were not supported by scripture and I started to question Church here’s the thing I know a lot of people would not like this this is Pedro by the way Church Authority and inability which is a whole different yard when you start questioning when things are not alighting with scripture

They should should be asking yourself what is going on with me and the interpretation I’m getting from on myself is it Dogma versus data so who’s right it’s data meaning scripture or Dogma meaning men’s Creed so those two things is when I started putting the perspective and I want to talk a little later yeah so it sounds like then from a a relatively early age you started to have maybe what you could consider like the early seeds of questioning or um things that didn’t seem um to line up and then in your young adult years is where um that really sort of kicked off

So was there a particular moment or event that led you to questioning adventism or was it more of a gradual process all the way from eight to your your mid 20s yes very good question my journey out of adventism was a gradual process and here’s why that a lot of people Miss sometimes I the videos that I’ve that I’ve encountered in the past uh my brother miles I’ve encountered the people you usually their transitioning part into truth VB getting out of adventism usually is quickly for others take time for me it was a gradual process that spend several years

And it began when I started to critically examine and probably the age of 24 going back to the age 24 it’s when I started as a youth workan as a youth pastor and I started critically examining the church’s teaching and practices why so there was many things that were making some noise in my head why’s going on what are these things where are they coming from and I started reading books and articles that challenge adventism Doctrine to to make sure what’s the opinion out there of Seventh Day Adventist or myself and having discussions with people that are not um

They’re not Adventist and I started having discussion with them and and meaning all the Christian denominations and one particular event that contribute to my questioning was when I discovered that some of the church Founders including Ellen White had made statements that seem to contradict scripture I am going to to say it again that seem to contradict scripture or were proven or were proven to be historically inaccurate this realization led me to revaluate the church Authority on the role of alen White’s writing in Adventist theology meaning I had to go

To the source not the Pedro somebody just an illumination came from heaven and got upon me and no that’s not how it works it’s by reading in the book of Acts we encountered the reality of the ban Church these people were digging scripture they look at scripture Paul was talking about boldly about Jesus Christ but they went home and they studied they wanted to read they were interested in what Paul was saying but they wanted to make sure that aligned with scripture what is basically the same reality that happened with Peter I had questions that were that were making

Some noise in my head and there was a realization that led me to reevaluate what was going on with l y biblical truth scatology the sub Heavenly Sanctuary I know I got ahead of myself but I needed to evaluate those things because they were not alive me they would make some noise in my head so basically y so you mentioned something very important in there that I know the audience is going to think wait hold up did he say he was an SDA youth pastor how did you go from a lay member to a youth pastor yes very good question well I went to Southern Aven University to study

Theology and I was heavily involved in one of the Hispanic churches that I will not mention for the sake of the video um I was heavily involved in that church great people and under a pastor a very well-known Pastor in the Hispanic Community worldwide and I was working with a friend of mine as well as a youth fasor and was heavily involved there for the five years that I was there at Souther University and studying Theology and that’s how it started so you went from growing up in the church and then you went and got a theology degree and then became an SDA youth

Pastor and so it was during all this time as a youth pastor that you’re actually wrestling through these things so it wasn’t even just as a lay person um it was somebody who was actually had you know somewhat of a role in leadership um and so your your level of wrestling with this was a little bit different I would say than just the average L SDA person who you know may come across these sorts of things um you have a little bit more invested in this and so now that you’ve left what is your perspective on the SDA Church’s claim to being the remnant

Church with a unique end times message that it’s a very good question brother miles I don’t want to take my time um with this question and the follow follow-up questions that you may uh have in your mind and in Petro’s opinion the SDA Church claiming to being the ram church let me make sure what rnam means rum means unique it means separate it means a separated people for specific deed or specific anything you name it with a unique and times SL fatigue message is a product of the Church’s early history and it is found Founders experiences going back to

1844 going to the whole reality how everything got on rvel how it has tapped how it got together the millerites and El White and The Whole Nine Yards while I understand the church Church’s desire to emphasize it distinctive beliefs and practices I no longer believe that the SDA church is the only true revenant of God’s people here’s why as a senior pastor every time I used to preach to the churches I used to talk to them about the reality of constantly in our minds Focus about preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ the Triune God the father and the Holy

Spirit the Triune God which pertain pertains to the reality of the godhead but if they don’t admit it but as I preach to each and every one of the churches they used to talk me why are not preaching about Daniel Revelation I said because we need to get into the gospel elel several time in English and Spanish but I’ve got a lot a lot a lot of pushbacks a lot of pushback while you’re not preaching on Daniels of Revelation I said because it’s called fatigue when you fatigue people you get them tired you get them concerned getting it and there’s no difference between that and

Telling them like if you don’t do this then you’re going to go to hell they get fatigue so they always feel and and instead of instead you know I see the body of Christ as a diverse and a global community of believers who are united in their faith in Christ Jesus you name it and I also believe that the SDA Church anti message while containing some biblical truth has been been overly emphasized and has led to a dis disproportionate focus and prophecy on Prophecy and eschatology it’s very it’s very crucial for people especially for S to understand what are they even signing

For what are they doing what what they need to understand what they do now the fellowship the community yes it’s great oh I love the public looks oh I love talking to the people oh yes I do I I love it I enjoy it and the whole n yours and you name it 10 past but here’s the thing who what are we doing who are we as a people are we Joseph and we reject the brothers or don’t get me started with that I’ve got I’ve gotten emails after emails phone calls after phone calls just for a seron that I preach about Joseph comparing to the 70 Adventist Church why we call ourselves

Joseph by discriminating the brothers that comes you know along with protestantism and you name so I definitely you know the question with the r CH and unique int message no no no no no I don’t buy into that I don’t buy into that I disagree with it I have scripture I have read it over and over and over again there’s no such a thing as the s there’s such a thing in in the in in the Bible we are SDA Church zero prove me one text and I quit one text you prove me that we are sdas in the church that Jesus Christ is 7 Aven is like these other brothers that be talking

Blasphemies after blasphemy making claiming so against Jesus Christ you need to repent you need to repent people for need to repent for quoting Jesus Christ saying oh Jesus Christ is seventh no he’s not a seventh day adst he was a human man that were were reaching to the people of Judah Benjamin the tribe that that that is the people like that was sent to him and then the the message of the Gentiles came through Paul through Peter to John but he’s a shepherd He I’ll be unite all these people and when and when the shepherd called these people to him then they will hear his

Voice and called to him that’s what he did he not SDA a lot of people well he was SDA all the rant Church read Revelation you’re not going to find in Revelation because it’s the Revelation the revelation of Jesus Christ it’s not the revelation of the mark of the beast there is no mark of the beast in Revelation folks no Mark of the book of no back of the mark of the beast on Revelation there’s no such a thing as that there’s such a thing a sealing time there’s no such a thing as the whole time of trouble none of that we we it’s a huge misinterpretation with specific those

Specific things I want to make sure uh brother miles something else I want to add to that um these are the these are the uh um SDA Church beliefs that I highly highly highly don’t agree with it because it’s non biblical it’s non-biblical it’s fatigue is misinterpreted it’s not us it within the context of the of the Bible for example here are the many uh scripture that uh as a church believe that P don’t agree with it Heavenly Sanctuary no the concept of the Heavenly Sanctuary where Jesus is Minister ministering in our behalf it’s not supported by scripture the book of

Hebrews chap 8 ver 1 and 2 to the reality he’s done his one time he secr ficial has sacrificed has done for us with one time in the cross and that’s it Hebrews chapter 9 verse 11 and 12 talks about it too state of the dead so sleep folks the idea that the dead are in a state of unconscious awaiting the resurrection is no supported by scripture go to the Book of Ecclesiastes chapter 12 verse 7 go to 2 Corinthian chapter 5 1 and 8 Sabbath keeping that’s the long one Sabbath giving I’m just going short just touching based on it the idea that the Sabbath is still

Binding on Christians to date is not supported by scripture Romans Chapter 14 verse 5 and 6 Galatians chapter 49 and 11 elaborates on it and invites Authority conditional immortality I’m just mentioned vegetarian diet brother Miles vegetarian diet you need to have a v vegetarian diet or you’re not part of Daniel’s root Saturday worship and Sunday worship Redman Church These are few of the many things that are go on on and on and on that I don’t agree with well brother you said that the you you disagree with the sdas on the mark of the beast and the time of of of the

Uh time of trouble and I when you said that I’m like oh man because I know what you’re saying but man sdas in the comments are going to explode when they hear you say this and they’re going to cite obviously Revelation 13 Etc um maybe you can speak into that one uh before we move to to our next question maybe you can speak into that just a little bit more what do you mean by you don’t believe in the mark of the beast or you don’t believe in the time of trouble clarify that for people yeah yeah yeah um first of all the mark of the beast the mark of the beast usually

Uh it’s it’s in the Book of Revelation um and he talks about the reality of of a mark and the mark of the man is 666 and the mark of the beast but this has been Mis uh misinterpret and misused because they said oh it’s going to be a ship and whenever there’s a little noise in the world they think or the Antichrist is going to come and going to put a ship and going to be a debit card or it’s going to be and it’s been misused and misinterpret and this Mark of the Beast is going to be now it talks about the mark of the bees in the head and the forehead and the forehead and

The hand and a lot of people get confused with it why the mark why what is the mark of the beast and when you think about when you think about the mark of the beast we need to understand that the mark of the beast has to do with the reality of the reality of just got up in my notes here and it’s got to do a lot with with it’s not what they’re thinking it’s in Revelation chapter 13 verse 16 and 18 and it goes like this also the call all both small and great both rich and poor both three slaves to be marked on the right hand of the for half so no one can

Buy and or sell unless he has a mark of the be where is it come from I’m going to tell you exactly where is it come from the mark of the beast in Hawaii it’s not coming from oh the mark of the beast is going to be because this is the reality and the ation of Sy of the bees to interpret as a symbol or an allegiance to the Antichrist yes it is an allegiance to the Antichrist those who do not follow Jesus Christ they want to be separated from Jesus Christ and don’t want anything to do with Christ therefore they’re going to be on the other side of the guy it’s it’s really

Easy to understand but the mark of the beast has been put on steroids by alen white and whoever has follow her all the way in and has infiltrated in our church to create f in people’s mind now there’s possible meanings according to Scholars some interpret the mark of the beast is a physical Mark or implant that will be required for economic transition well I don’t claim to know at all I don’t claim to say oh this is a specific thing symbolic Allegiance others see a symbolic representation of one’s allegiance to the Antichrist of the war system I I go

With that one spiritual Mark another perspective is that the mark of the beast represent a spiritual mark or characteristic that distinguishes those who follow Antichrist from those who remain to faithful I talked about I think about Revelation chapter 14 verse2 here are the Pati of the Saints here are they that keep the Commandments of God Commandments of God Jesus Christ and have the testimony of him not talking about the law not talking about the let La still the testimony of Jesus Christ himself so the different interpretations of the mark of

The beast exist and it is essential to approach this topic with humility and willingness to consider various perspective and interpretation but we’ve got him from I know what or right I uh expend too much on it and the other the other one was was the mark of the beast and yeah that well the time of trouble but I just wanted to make sure that and you can speak about the time of trouble if you’d like as well I just wanted to make sure that for the audience’s sake they they didn’t misunderstand what you were saying because I did pick up on what you were saying and and you

Clarified there very well that you’re essentially saying that you know what the SDA church is putting forth here is this very elaborate um sort of conspiratorial level interpretation and it’s kind of passed off as just we have this special insight and this Divine confirmation from God through Ellen White that the way we understand this is correct and this is exactly what’s going to happen and no this is way more nuanced than that this is there there’s a lot more going on here than just making assertions like this um which is what they do you know I get Adventist

All the time that that like to argue with me and they’ll just make assertions about this text I’ll say where are you getting this show this to me in the text they read the text I said where are you getting anything in there about this they have to jump somewhere else over here and then say well because it says this over here there’s this inference back so it doesn’t just say that don’t act like it’s just saying this and then we’re rejecting it there’s a lot more going on here at the end of the day it’s really that their movement believes and teaches that like the Pioneers believed

They were given special insight to prophetic understandings that no one before them had and that’s ultimately where this is coming from it’s so interesting how ingrain it in the mind of people are how a person can write and and have authority to be able to say I’ve seen everything I’ve been to Heaven I’ve I’ve seen I got Visions I’ve been to Heaven I’ve seen this and I’ve seen that and I said first of all first of all it completely contradict because then the she she will be contradicting John J said nobody has ever seen God nobody has been even Paul went to the third heaven

In second Corinthians chapter 12 he went to the third heaven he was not allowed to talk about it and you have to have this critical thinking and say why was he not allowed to talk well first of all he had a mission to bring people to cry the Gentiles not to talk about oh this is what I saw in heaven I saw a fiery ministers that are around the throne 24 elders and you have the four beasts that worship holy holy holy Eternal what oh he’s great and amazing if be good good no he did holy holy holy is the Lord God Almighty it’s not that typical that oh

It’s lovely and the way he looked well there is depiction through scripture through men by their writing what they have encountered that have ministered to the hearts but here’s what what heaven says like the father God holy holy holy is the Lord God Almighty it’s so thank you Lord It’s so powerful but when we make assertions I have seen the son and he was looking at me and then he turns away his face and I said okay I kept on reading what’s going on because he’s he told me he told me boldly claim if I don’t tell people what I’m writing if if they don’t accept it they’re going to go

To hell and their blood it’s going to be on me and I said what is that has what I can I can picture that in my mind it doesn’t fit my mind because when I read scripture from Genesis all the way to Revelation repetitively repetitively repeatedly consecutive while I got into an accident I came back into Life by The Almighty I read scripture on own why because everything was taken away when you get your brain hit one of the things that you get taken away is called um it’s it’s it’s the sense of knowing stuff you are in a coma it took me a whole year and then I grabbed the Bible

And the only desire I had in my mind was to read read read read and I and I ask God I don’t want to read it and I don’t want nothing to do with Christianity if you not going to talk to me through scripture oh brother that’s a whole another yards What the Lord Has Done With Me wow well like I said I’m glad that we were able to clarify so just so people weren’t weren’t misunderstanding what it was that you were saying about that now you’ve kind of hinted at this a little bit but I do still want to ask the question because maybe you’ll want to go deeper you may end up bringing up

Something that we haven’t talked about yet but out of all of the Adventist doctrines which one did you find most challenging to reconcile with your understanding of scripture you mentioned this accident that you had um and that it was through this um what seemingly negative experience that God actually used this to radically change you and part of that was this hunger for the word of God and so what was one doctrine of all the AVST doctrines what’s the one that was the just the most challenging to reconcile with scripture man that is wow I there is two but I know that You’

Asked for one and that one that one I had I was worried about this one specifics and and I asked myself what what what what it’s going to look like and it’s the investigative judgment Mr Pedro is being checked in heaven to make sure that he behaves very well so he’s worthy of my kingdom and then I said hm what is the investigative judgment so scripture teaches that God’s judgment is not based on our works but rather on our faith in Jesus Christ and I said okay I’m going to start there so it’s not based by works but the church is allowing me to work

Work on my salvation you got to behave well you have to dress up well by the way this is sinful it’s a naked shirt this is sinful don’t wear this to shirt you’re not supposed to do it and you name it the whole n Ys with with the words you know yet they talk about yeah we are based we are saved through faith in Jesus Christ Ephesians chapter 2:s 8 and9 we are saved by faith but you have been saved by grace and so forth but they actually don’t believe vast majority don’t believe in the faith in Jesus Christ and I went to the Book of Romans and I spent a whole three months

Only reading the book of Romans and I went to Romans chapter 3 verse 24 and 25 and Ephesians chapter 2 verse 8 and9 and the idea that there is an investigative judgment where God reviews Our Lives to determine worthiness for Haven it’s not supported by scripture where do I find it John 5 verse 24 and Romans chapter 8 verse1 Romans chapter 8 verse1 there is therefore now no condemnations for those who are in Christ Jesus for the spirit of life has set us free in Christ Jesus from the spirit of of death and law the law of death and sin so I’m in Christ Jesus

He’s accepted me through his sacrifice therefore now I walk in newness of life because I love him it’s so simple I don’t want to go I don’t want to be thinking like I can you know when Sunset comes I can go to CVS and get a medicine that I need or something I need or somebody V me out I can do it so all that is works so that’s why the investigative judgment what’s going on and then also the reality of an investigative judgment the reality um when when he goes in in the sanctuary then I went to the book of Hebrews Hebrews chapter n talks about it on PS

And if you read if you read the book of Hebrews dear friends if you read the book of Hebrews and you’re missing the point you need to highlight it go to he go to Hebrews chapter 8 go to Hebrews chapter 9 go to Hebrews chapter 10 go to Hebrew chap 11 I can go on and on and read read he did it once and for all in it a his sacrif sacrifice he died on the cross and he pays the debt that way huge one he reconcile he died on the cross reconciles to the father give us eternal life in Christ Jesus and then he gives us the paros his holy spirit so investigative judgment I I was always

Wondering and and I ask the Lord I need to know if I I’ve been investigated because probably I’m failing I don’t think I’m going to make it P’s not going to make it and then I read Hebrews these three books Hebrews Romans and Ephesians through those three books clearly depict the reality of what Christ has done in the cross oh if we go back to the sanctuary don’t get me started with the sanctuary it’s in the outside outer placees and where they get it from I know where they get it from and then why they haven’t studed it he did it on the sanctuary and then

He went inside and then he goes inside he moves from the holy to the most holy then he moves back and then if no no we’re not going to move it back I’m goingon to move forward I’m going to be on the other side and spring block and all this folks Hebrew brother Paul and I I I assume it’s Paul because when you read the book of Hebrew this is me want on on the topic you see a lot of words of Paul in Hebrews here and there I I think it was Paul Maybe not maybe it was John maybe it was somebody El look somebody else but you can tell the reality and he

Explained what the Heavenly Sanctuary look like the model of Heaven period he doesn’t say well the same way it we did here on the bottom is the same way to do it up there and they have have to do sacrificial and now he he as a high priest uh through the through the priesthood of AIS now he has to do everything sacrificial that he was up there because it moving from one compartment to the other compartment and I said no that’s going against chapter nine chapter 10 chapter 11 no it it makes no sense to me and I know it’s it’s it’s a it’s a very it could be very

Confused for some people but you have to read it start whole book of Hebrews and he talks about Christ as a high High most high God as a high priest that has intercede and paid for our penalty he paid for our our our transgression he paid for separation pay for the separation that we had we we we were heading to we were heading to to to hell he saved us and he he did it once and for all so yeah yeah now many Adventists obviously will disagree with what you said they’ll you know it it depends on the type of Adventist that you’re talking to but many of them will say no

No no you’re misrepresenting the teaching you didn’t really understand the teaching Pedro you didn’t really know what we believe pedol yeah it’s yeah exactly they’ll call you brother but then they’ll also say you’re a tool of Satan yeah know get I get that one a lot that uh especially especially when H the teeth and he does say h teeth I wonder what happened that’s what happens when you’re not in Christ oh man well but it the thing that I always find so interesting about that that that issue aside without getting into all the weeds with the the sort of

Arguments they’ll make about you don’t actually know what we believe you weren’t a true Adventist all that sort of stuff it’s just interesting to me Pedro that this Doctrine the investigative judgment is supposed to be according to Ellen White which is supposed to be a higher authority than any lay Adventist out there she claimed that if a person does doesn’t understand this Doctrine they’re not going to properly understand the current role that they have and the current Duty that they have before God because they’re not going to properly understand the role of

Christ right now so this is tied to you being saved ultimately I’ll get SDA constantly that tell me we don’t teach that you have to believe in the investigative judgment to be saved yes your system does say that you as an individual may be saying no that’s not the case but systematically speaking and Ellen White understood that and she claimed in order to have the faith necessary to make it you’re going to need to understand this Doctrine yet any person who talks about it former Adventist pastors former Adventist teachers former Adventist professors

Former Adventist Ley you name it across the board they’re all coming out saying the same things this is what they teach I reject that and yet it’s constantly said you don’t actually know what the teaching is yet it’s supposed to be something that people have to understand to be saved if it’s this complicated that even your own professors pastors teachers Etc can walk away and all of a sudden well you didn’t actually really know what the teaching was that right there is just a big enough red flag that salvation’s not that complicated folks it’s it’s it’s not it’s not that

Complicated in terms of how you can be made right with God I’m not saying there’s no areas of theology that are complex but I just I just would like to add add uh you know add to the the discussion of the uh Heavenly sanctuary and so forth there might be people probably by the way by the way there are a lot of folks that know Pedro they know my heart they know that I love them but I’m not going to parti of things that are not shedding the light into our heart and I just want to quote exactly specifically what alien white has to say in the great

Controversy page 428 but when the ministration in the first apartment ended the ministration in the second apartment began no when in the typical service the high priest left the holy on the day of atonement he went in before God to present the blood of the sin offering in behalf of all Israel who truly repented of their sin so Christ had only completed one part really of his work as our inter intercessor to enter upon another portion of the work that’s exactly what I was talking about earlier that that he did just part of it he has to completely

Kind of complet it in in heaven he was split into and he still plead his blood before the father in behalf of his Sinners page 428 continues in the service of the he Earthly Sanctuary which as we have seen is a figure of the service in the Heavenly when the high priest in the day of atonement enter the most holy place the ministration in the first apartment ceased God commandment there shall be no man in the Tabernacle of the congregation when he goes into to make an atonement in the Holy place until he comes out she quoting Leviticus 16 16:17 says so when

Christ enter the holy of the holies to perform the closing work of atonement watch this he sees his ministration in the first apartment my word that’s not based that’s that doesn’t go with Hebrews chapter 9 sorry wait Hebrews chapter 8 Hebrews chapter 9 it contradict four chapters of Hebrew but when the ministration of the first apartment when this with this but when the ministration in the first apartment ended the ministration in the second apartment began when in the typical service of the high priest left the holy on the day of atonement he went in before God to

Present the blood of the sin offering in behalf of all behalf of all Israel which Tru repented of their sin so this is what she said so Christ had only completed one part he goes again I am so sorry it’s called blasphemy because she’s saying oh he only did partial so he that in the cross he his his blood that’s been shed on the cross for the entire Humanity it’s only half of it completely one part of his work as our intercessor so enter upon another portion of the work and he still pleading his blood before the father and behalf of Sinners sorry I don’t I don’t

Agree with it yeah and so the thing too there there I mean we could get into a lot of holes in this in this teaching um I want to try and explain something for those in the audience who were never taught this Doctrine because our audience consists of a lot of people who have no connection to the SDA Church um in their own experience but maybe they have Adventists in their lives that they’re wanting to better understand and reach this Doctrine is essentially trying to build Upon A type antitype and they try to point to the Old Testament system to

Make a modern-day application in the New Covenant so that’s the support that you’re going to try and get and that’s essentially what Ellen White was stating from there or pulling from was the Old Testament imagery and there are elements of Truth in these claims but individuals that are not uh familiar with the levitical system you may Overlook subtle distortions that signif uh significantly alter the message so the avenus claim is that the Earthly Sanctuary serves as a model for what occurs in heaven that according to this view during the daily

Rituals of the Earthly Sanctuary Israelite sinners would bring animals as sacrifices for their sins they would confess their sins over the animal after which the priest would kill it and then they claim it the blood was then taken into the sanctuary to be sprinkled before the veil this then was supposed to symbolize the transfer of the individual person’s sins into the sanctuary the holy place where they would remain on record until the day of atonement when the sanctuary was cleansed so then Adventists will assert that this Earthly system typifies the

New Testament Believers experience that just like Israelites confessed their sins over a sacrifice and symbolically transferred their sins into the sanctuary Christians are said to do the same however it’s with Jesus instead of transferring sins into an Earthly Sanctuary over uh of blood of bulls and goats the Christian sins are allegedly transferred into the heavenly Sanctuary through Jesus the high priest and they claim that just like that outer apartment work was taking place except for that one day a year of the the cleansing so too prior to 1844 that’s

What Jesus was doing in the outer apartment of this heavenly sanctuary building but then the cleansing of the sanctuary the antitypical day of atonement began on October 22nd 1844 which is where Jesus moved into that second phase that are referring to now there are a ton of problems with this but here is a key one Pedro and I’m not sure how familiar uh familiar you are with this but Leviticus 4 explicitly outlines the circumstances under which blood was taken into the sanctuary during the daily Ministry and it was only on two occasions so Leviticus 4 lays out all

These different qualifications if the priest sins do this if the people as a whole sin ignorantly do this if the if the individual sinner does some you know sins do this Etc blood was only taken into the sanctuary on two specific cases one when the priest himself sinned that’s Leviticus 4 3-6 and two when the entire Israelite Community sinned unintentionally Leviticus 4:13-17 for individual penitent Israelites the procedure was different we’re told in Leviticus 4:27 through 31 that specifically the blood of the sacrifices for individual penitent Israelites was

Not brought into the sanctuary it was applied to the altar of burnt offering so consequently the Earthly Sanctuary was not defiled by the daily transfer of sins into its structure nor were sins stored on record within it but that’s the parallel that they need they need a parallel that in the old way in the type the individual penitent Israelite had their sins transferred into the sanctuary to rest to then be cleansed during the day of atonement yet the blood of the individual pen an Israelite sacrifice wasn’t taken into the sanctuary only for the priest and

The nation as a whole when they sinned unintentionally which breaks down their type antitype that’s correct you you you unpack it perfectly that’s exactly that’s exactly uh how Leviticus chapter 4 and Hebrews chapter 8 and N talks about clearly what happened in the Heavenly what happens in the Heavenly and the Earthly and the Heavenly Sanctuary heavly but they misinterpreted they also don’t have any concept of Christ being simultaneously a priest and a king So Hebrews 61 19-20 as well as Hebrews 71 um you’re talking about the book of Hebrews um we’re plainly told

That melchisedec was simultaneously a priest king he was a high priest king yet in the Adventist model because what Ellen White claimed to see in Vision in early writings was that at a point in the future when Jesus ceases the investigative judgment he’s going to cease being a priest where he’s going to take off Priestly garments and put on his kingly garments and then he’s going to assume the role of a king at that point don’t forget about the bells don’t forget about the bells I go clink CL clink out of them don’t get me started with Michael and Jesus it’s a same

Reality with the makis the RO makis of the king of salom and then Jesus Christ it’s the same reality that they mix with um Michael and Jesus when Michael stands up Danel chap 12 and they got it all together so yes it’s Jesus yes it’s Jesus it’s Jesus Michael is oh it is yeah and so it just there there’s a lot of holes in that particular teaching um and we have a lot more resources if people are interested on that just go to our website answering adventism tocom and on the sidebar of the homepage just click questions and answers and then click on the investigative judgment

Section and there are article after article with all the primary source documentation but I want to transition here to a little bit of a different aspect not as theological but more about your own personal experience what have you found to be the most significant difference between Adventist worship and community life like Adventist culture and your current Church experience um well right here in the perspective emphasis on the importance of community relationship and the growth of Faith uh should mirror the early Church’s emphasis and the fellowship and a mutual

Support and I think here you’ve have asked ask here and the question that you ask um this is this is um I think it’s the uh doctrines that I found most challenging to reconcile that’s that’s your question that you ask or well just how how different is so I’ll word it actually this way um what how has it been has has life as a Christian outside of the SDA Church been the way that the Seventh Day Adventist Church portrayed it to you um has it been different how has culture been different so for me for example one thing that I and and these are kind of

Quirky observations I could list off a bunch of these types of things for you but it’s just an example and these are the ones that kind of just come to mind for me off the the top one thing that really stuck out to me when I left adventism and I became a Christian and started going to like a local Christian Church was I realized they don’t have their own fake meat products like in Adventist culture it’s very interesting I understand the evanst church doesn’t own the the lominda you know food company but they’re Affiliated and they purchase the product and they disseminate it to the

Universities and you eat it at the potluck and like little de yeah yeah it’s they have their own fake soy meat products and they’re a church that’s just an interesting sort of Quirk like oh yeah I guess that is it’s not something you really think about though when you’re in that world you know it’s just kind of something that it is again they have their own bookstores Adventist Book centers ADV Adventist Christian books you know so there’s these sort of cultural things that are really unique in adventism as well as the sort of things they’ll tell

You about you know those other kind of apostate Protestants out there and those Roman Catholics out there and you get out of that and and you start to engage with them and you start to really realiz well it’s like no the the the way this was portrayed to me by this organization eh that’s not really what I’m seeing the these people love Jesus they they disagree with you on on certain matters um but these people love the Lord um they’re not angry they don’t hate Adventists most of them have no clue who seventh Adventists are this idea that they’re all going to come and hunt

Adventus down one day and kill them for going to church on Saturday just it doesn’t align with reality so I’m curious how how your experience has been how how has um it been very different from the way it was portrayed to you or the sort of things that um you’ve just really picked up on that are are very different yeah yeah well yeah it’s very it’s very similar very similar to yours and one of the most significant differences I’ve noticed in the emphasis on on community and relationships in my current Church uh while the Adventist Church places a strong emphasis on Doctrine and

Prophecy and health lifestyle my current Church focuses more on building relationship serving others and fostering a sense of community I also appreciated the more contemporary and diverse worship which to me it’s to me that they will call me oh you you guys worship Bell because you have light and the lights are going on and they got guitars and they got drums and they got the whole N9 yards and and you guys going to go to hell and and the diverse worship styles that I’ve encountered now that I can worship in here’s the thing Pedro now worshiped in

Freedom he prays in Freedom he in Freedom he listens to the word with so much Freedom so that reality you know that that you will get in the sub Church in the whole program that you got to go through and and if you don’t do this you got to dress up if you don’t put your tie oh I’ve gotten people criticize my wife and I for me not wearing a tie for example so I I’ve been I’ve been very blessed but I very divver an awesome beautiful Church uh in my current Church which have help me to connect with God and in a new and meaningful way because we come for the we we come

With a city in our minds in order to get that City out no man can do it but the Holy Spirit to God and direct our thought to reorient ourselves to set us free joh chapter 8 verse one that’s the reality about the Holy Spirit what he does how he freees in great Jesus Christ but I I could I could go on and on and on and on and and and and then mistreatment it and I’m not going to go in a tangent about I’m not I’m not here to talk about the pain and guilt that not only me but people that are serving now that are suffering they just can’t come out if they come out if they come

Out and speak about what they’re being treated and what is going on now here it is not my mission my mission is about to bring the love of Jesus Christ into the hearts of people and for them to feel freedom to have this freedom in Jesus Christ how do how do you gain freedom in Jesus Christ because they will ask me ped about how do you get all this where are you coming with those idea reading the word it’s not going to come with a lie from above and why not it’s it’s not a prophet rising up and say th says the Lord no it’s by reading the word of God

And that reading comes with prayer comes with supplication comes with with tears comes with you inquiring not be open as it should be given but you have to do it you’re going to want it and that’s exactly what my wife and I did and I don’t want to speak for her I’m speaking for my own because and when you start reading the word of God and you if you don’t have tears in your eyes the holy spirit is probably not convicting your heart or or probably is convicting it but you don’t want it because you’re reading the word of God through your lenses but you’re not

Reading the word of God to find truth in Jesus Christ so yeah basically yeah it’s um it’s always a Telltale sign if someone’s proclaiming to uh or claiming to proclaim the gospel yet there isn’t a spirit of Freedom um because that’s exactly what the the gospel brings and I know that Adventists some Adventists will hear that and think what I’m saying is by freedom I mean you know lenti justness and Godless living and that’s not what I’m talking about obviously pork and that’s not what I’m talking about talking about a real Romans 51 you mentioned Romans 81 as well therefore

Having been justified by faith we have peace with God peace thank you Lord you you mentioned something earlier and the the technical term for it is what’s called covenantal GN nomism and you mentioned how how seventh day Adventists um will will insist you know by grace through faith we believe in grace through faith Grace Grace it’s all of Grace it’s all of Jesus Etc and what people may not understand is that the Adventist model formally speaking is what’s called covenantal GN nomism and covenantal nomism is a a an ancient understanding and idea it’s not just

Unique to Adventist they did not invent this or concoct this but they align with it and covenantal nomism is this idea that you’re in Covenant relationship with God by faith but then you’re kept by your obedience so it is a misplaced understanding of the role of obedience it’s not a proper so when you argue this with an Adventist you really have to get into the nitty-gritty about well no the problem is is you guys have misplaced the role of obedience I’m not against obedience I seek to obey the Lord because I love the Lord I love what he did for me I believe what he did for me

On the cross in the in the grave in his Ascension in his sinless life Etc I am against though claiming that the role of obedience is to keep you in right relationship with God no incorrect that is that is wrong you are then saying what Jesus did isn’t enough in and of itself that Jesus merely made something a possibility right and then you now have to do the rest you have to enable him now to be a savior and come alongside him and to use Ellen White’s words you have to co- labor alongside him you have to do your part alongside what he did and it’s a conjoined effort which will

Eventually bring you to a point of being ESAT logically Justified but but ultimately you’re in by faith and kept by obedience and and that is just that’s not the gospel I’m sorry that’s not the gospel and you’re not going to find Freedom in that message because you’re constantly going to be pointed back to yourself and what you’re doing I understand Adventists are going to say no we don’t believe our works have any Merit we don’t believe we’re saved by I get all of that I’ve heard it a million times I’m talking about the Practical implications of the teaching and the

System and and that’s what it produces you need to look at the actual fruit and practical application in the lives of individual sdas because I’m telling you I’ve talked with thousands of s sdas in my life and very few of them can I recall ever confidently being able to say like Paul did I have peace with God or if they did they didn’t understand what that actually meant it was something along the lines of um I’m confident in you know Salvation I’m confident because of my association with the remnant church or I keep the Sabbath it was something along those lines when

That’s not what Paul’s talking about what Paul is talking about is when the spirit comes in and you have an overwhelming sense of Ah that’s the rest that Jesus came and said that he came to bring not this constant looking towards yourself and am I doing enough have I done this have I done that that sort of stuff just kind of naturally grows and changes and evolves over time when your eyes are just fixed on Jesus that’s right so that’s right how did your congregation and family respond when you decided to leave and how have you navigated those relationships wow wow wow wow wow I want

To be I want to be I want to be very

Um at times when I go for walks nobody knows what happens in the heart of p and I go for walks I was walking with a king handicap till Jesus restore me into healthy more better place that I can feel healthy I used to ask him why me why I feel the sense of freedom in my heart why am I why am I everything has been open by reading the word of God nobody’s calling Pedro and talking about Freedom nobody’s calling me and by the way I’m reading and and and people will not understand it but I got to say it I I’m very slow to speech I can’t talk clearly

Clearly I cannot express myself clearly because I was in a coma for an entire month God delivered me brought me back to life but when I read the word of God it has nothing to do with oh you know he was in a calline match and he got hit on his head so that’s why no I came into into into reading the word of God and and it took me a while when I decided to to leave adventism church grip I’m GNA say it again when I left adventism church grip my congregation and family has responded with a mix of surprise he’s not going to live he’s a great guy he’s lovely he’s awesome which

I am in the Lord concern disappointment Pedro was probably not meant to be seven day Agonist you know it’s fortunately we’re going to pray for her for him some members of my family and former congregations they have continue to reach out um to engage in respectful conversation in which I am not going to discuss with them theology I refer him to the word of God I am not going to um have discussion with people I’m not going to have people say no I’m going to I’m going to tell you about the Heavenly Sanctuary you can tell me all about you want to know and

Then I’m going to take you drink coffee with me I’m not going to disrespect you I’m not going to tell you that you are you know have understood something that’s completely difference where I have not read the word of God and let the Holy Spirit speak to you so I have old people that I talk behind my back oh yeah they have sent me emails they sent me um phone messages phone calls this is what I do for each and every one of you I want to show what I do with each and every one of you I love you in Jesus Christ you can call me all you want you can MRI me all you want you can slander

Me all you want you can do everything you want I still going to love you in Jesus Christ and I hope that you coming to Freedom you can do everything you want to do with me talk about me do all kinds of things you want to say I still got to love in Jesus Christ others have chosen to dist themselves for from me people have started with me which has been difficult but understandable I’m not I’m not going to bring I’m not bringing I’m not creating a Remnant people that are going to come with petol and and whole nine yards you know so navigating these relationships

Has require patience empathy and a commitment to maintaining open lines of communication you call we talked about Jesus Christ boom beautiful we talk about how can you pray for me and how can I pray for you and while it has been challenging I’m grateful for the opportunities to share my journey and perspective with those who are willing to listen this is what I’ve been entrusted in my heart January 12 friends vast majority of you has prayed for me half of the entire world has prayed for Pedro what has been entrusted in My Heart by the Holy Spirit and I’m going to claim

In the name of Jesus Christ what has been entrusted in the hearts of Pedro is to talk about freedom in Jesus Christ and what he has done with me how he healed me and brought me back to life while I was dead some of you know what happened to me some of you know about the accident I had how of the entire United States and abroad people that I know have prayed for me calling on the name of Jesus Christ for you to come into Freedom read the word of God open the word of God seek it in prayer supplication tears Lord show me don’t just go to church to have a great time I

Have a great every time I go to any seven church I have a great time I’m not gonna I’m not goingon to say lies yeah I sit on your pews I have partner with you I like why because I love you but I’m not going to partake of what is non-biblical I’m not going to I love you so much that I want you to encounter freedom in Jesus Christ I know I’m slow to speech I know I’m not expressed with some of you know me as before to be more articulate guy to more what Christ is daing me he’s done it it’s not me if he want if he doesn’t want me to be more open and Bly how I

Was before probably used to talk 100 miles an hours probably miles I used to talk 100 miles an hour it’ll be more expressful more fully and enriched in my words I canot I don’t understand how but this is what I’ve understood he gave me Freedom himself I’m free and we want you brother M me and many others we want you to be free Jesus Christ but I’m not I’m not part of the SDA Church no more I love you I love you with all my heart so much and he hurts me and he hurts me because I ask God why me why me but he answered me he said you seek and found

It so yeah amen bro I uh I’ve really enjoyed our conversation here um I I’m I’m glad that um the Lord has been merciful in your life it is a reminder um especially when we go through some sort of physical trial like you’ve described um but that on top of having to leave um your place of comfort with everything you know family friends those sorts of things you really do have to rely on the strength of the Lord in order to get through that stuff and it kind of puts some new skin on the bones to the portions of scripture that talk about character being built through suffering and that

Um you know even in the Lord’s prayer Lord lead us not into temptation um you know because there are times where God not necessarily with temptation but with um hardships and trials and God leads us into those things ultimately to shape us and mold us and make us more into the likeness of Christ so praise God for his grace and mercy in your life one final question for you here what advice would you give to someone within adventism who’s beginning to question their faith or consider leaving the church yes it’s a it’s a part of two question I am going to answer uh the

First part and then I’m going to answer the second one with a poem so my advice would be to approach your questions every one of you that are inquiring in the word of God when you approach your question in doubts approach him with honesty humility and an open heart make sure that you don’t know everything I know that we we were taught a lot of things but you are opening your heart you’re seeking the truth in the truth in Jesus Christ by reading the word of God approach boldly the throne Paul says that we approach we can approach the throne boldly and we can talk to him

Lord I need you to open up my heart my my heart my mind my so that I can understand your truth truth don’t be afraid to explore different perspectives and to seek guidance from trusted mentors spiritual leaders read read read read read read the Bible also remember that it’s okay to question and that your faith should be grounded in a personal relationship with our Triune God rather than mere tradition or doctrine if you decide to live Adventist Church adventism grip be prepared for a proess for a process of adjustment growth do not be discouraged

And if you encounter challenges or criticism along the way ultimately your spiritual journey belongs to you not to any man or Temple and this I want to appeal to your heart with this PO that I have written for those that resonate with me and here’s the poem for those of you that want freedom in Jesus Christ Living s the church arise your heart and break the chains the bind you to a law that brings only pain adventism rules and regulations may seem true but Jesus calls you to freedom to live a new in him you’ll find the Liberty to sore to live the way of Works behind forever

More no longer bound by Sabbath loss or dietary codes you will find your freedom in the love that Jesus unfolds the father’s heart beats with love for you a love that’s not condition on what you do in Jesus you’re accepted just as you are a child of God with no need to prove or compare so let go of the fear that holds you tight and stpp into the lights of Jesus love and Delight he’ll guide you on the path of freedom and of Grace in his present you’ll find a love the time and space one eras dear one you are free in Christ Jesus free to live free to love and to

Thrive no longer bound by the chains of adventis sight you will sword and Eagle’s Wings in the warm life of Jesus love and Delight oh apostate did he say that come on man