Unveiling the Truth: Christian Nationalism vs. SDA Fears w/ Doug Wilson

If the Christian faith has nothing whatever to do with politics then there’s nothing wrong with establishing a theocracy right hey what’s up y’all as always welcome to the channel so trigger warning what you’re about to watch is a discussion with Pastor Douglas Wilson from Canon press and Christ Church in Moscow Idaho while I don’t necessarily agree with Doug on everything I wanted to discuss Christian nationalism with him but particularly with regards to a national Sunday law I’ve heard Doug’s name mentioned a number of times in Adventist circles to try and claim that

People like him are leading the apostate Protestant charge to bring about National ruin and persecution of 7th Day Adventist so since some people in my circle know Doug I reached out to him to test this hypothesis is Doug Wilson really part of a charge to round up 7th Day Adventist after passing a national Sunday law to persecute them for going to church on Saturday let’s find out well Doug thank you for being here I’m sure that we will get into some hot water as you’re no stranger to being a Christian Troublemaker it’s unfortunate that we’re just shy of No Quarter

November so maybe uh you’ve put the flamethrower back into storage yeah it’s all yeah uh but that is in part why I wanted to discuss the subject of Christian nationalism with you but more specifically as it pertains to seventh day adventism you might be thinking well why is that one of their Central client and you may not know this is that there is a soon to come National Sunday law which is supposedly being spearheaded by Protestants linking arms with Roman Catholicism this Sunday law will mandate that Sunday is to be observed as the Sabbath Nationwide eventually a death

Decree will then go forth sanctioning the killing of seventh day Adventists for refusing that’s not a joke many in those circles point to people like yourself I’ve heard your name specifically to say that Christian nationalists are leading the charge so so to start I want to ask you how do you define Christian nationalism and is Doug Wilson a Christian nationalist yes I am willing to call myself a Christian nationalist it’s something it’s a term I probably wouldn’t have um invented myself and applied to myself but I’m willing to work with it and go along

With it because I think I can explain it in 30 seconds or so and I prefer it to some of the other terms that I routinely get called like white supremacist or Theo fascist so Christian nationalist is fine I’m a Christian and I’m a citizen of this nation and I believe that this nation ought to obey God and just so we’re clear you’re not advocating for a form of uh American Supremacy kinism or a resuscitation of antibellum American uh uh time period correct because any sort of view that’s typically advocating for Christian influence in society is often unfairly

Labeled is advocating for those such things that’s not what you’re advocating correct not at all and and would be in the Forefront of fighting a bunch of those manifestations which I would regard as sinful distractions so I would I would expect a a Christian Southern South Korean to be a Christian nationalist also but not of America right right cor correct so um I don’t believe that everyone in the world has the duty to be an American but I believe that all Americans have a duty to be Christian and have a responsibility to want their Nation to be more obedient

Than we’re currently being yes so that’s the context in which uh this sort of discussion will be coming from now Ellen White the SDA Church’s uh prophetess she had this to say about the future which is why SD are anticipating these things and this is only a fraction of her claims but notice what she says laws enforcing the observance of Sunday as the Sabbath will bring about a national apostasy from the principles of republicanism upon which the government has been founded the religion of the papacy will be accepted by the rulers and the law of God will be made void

Close quote and this will eventually lead to this the whole world is to be stirred with enmity against 7th Day Adventists because they will not yield homage to the papacy by honoring Sunday the institution of this anti-christian power close quote this National Sunday law will start in America and eventually become Global and they believe that when this happens sth Day Adventists are going to have to take a stand for the seventh day Sabbath and be prepared to die for such so my question for you are Christian nationalists like yourself seeking to

Pass a national Sunday law that will eventually lead to persecution coming for those who want to observe Saturday as the Sabbath uh no I’ve never heard anybody proposing that or talking about it or wishing that they could I do believe that the Sabbath is going to be part of a Reformation of our morals I don’t believe the fourth Commandment has been uh retired in any way so if there is a national reformation and Revival I believe that that will result in a national honoring of the Lord’s day I do believe that that’s going to happen but I’m a federalist I don’t think the

Mechanism for it ought to be the federal government I believe that um Sabbath laws or what they used to be called blue laws uh should be a municipal local County um sort of thing not National at all okay and and I and I also believe that from the founding of our country down to the time when I was a young man I was in the Navy when Virginia um uh jettisoned her blue laws her Sunday laws um and so for virtually the entire history of the United States uh we had legal protection for the Lord’s day um and it didn’t lead to this U persecution or genocide of Seventh Day

Adventist I have no problem uh no problems U affirming that the rights of uh the liberty of conscience of seventh day Adventists ought to be respected and honored they they uh this is the extent of the person ution that I’d be willing to um deploy against a Seventh Day Adventist he would not be able to go into a shop and buy a shovel that’s how that’s the extent of the p right right that would be the extent of the persecution well it’s funny because they love to point to the blue laws they love to point to 1888 and and these sorts of times in American

History to try and say that that was kind of a precursor for what’s coming at the end of the 19th century actually from a little beyond the middle to the end of the 19th century there was a national Reform movement to establish a national Sunday law and many people were persecuted in certain States because they did not respect Sunday as a day of worship but I think when you dig into those sorts of things kind of like you said it’s it’s really it doesn’t fit the bill at all for what they’re they’re saying is is coming so there’s kind of a big jump that has to happen between that

To what they’re actually saying um Kevin Paulson he’s an Adventist pastor and apologist on his website ad vindicate he had this to say regarding the new Speaker of the House Mike Johnson he says the new speaker of the of the US House claims to base his worldview on the Bible but he needs to consider certain passages including some from the lips of Christ himself which contradicts his thinking regarding the relationship of church and state when arraigned before Pontius Pilate Jesus was accused by the Jewish leaders of saying that he himself is Christ a king pilate

Proceeded to take Jesus aside in private asking him art thou the king of the Jews Jesus responded my kingdom is not of this world one Congressional colleague has warned that the leadership of the new house Speaker might well demonstrate what theocracy looks like whether such will happen under the present speakership we cannot say but seventh day Adventists know from The Inspired writings referring to Ellen White that a man-made attempt at theocracy is much in America’s future close quote so dub Adventists will often point to any Christian bringing their worldview into

The political sphere as going against Jesus’s own teachings with John 8 uh being the proof text that’s often being thrown out as support this obviously as you know is not unique to them but also like I mentioned earlier some Adventists will point to people like yourself as evidence that Protestants are working on establishing a theocracy which is going to persecute them for going to church on Saturday so my question to you what did Jesus mean when he said my kingdom is not of this world and should Christians avoid political involvement if not and

They should be involved should they sh their worldview for a temporary only while on the clock one yeah there there are multiple issues here I’ll just start by saying if the Christian faith has nothing whatever to do with politics then there’s nothing wrong with establishing a theocracy right basically what I’m arguing is that we need to uh in our Behavior as Citizens we we are to stop doing things that make God angry and what I’m talking about is killing babies what I’m talking about is sodomite marriages that’s what I’m talking about I’m not talking about persecuting Seven

Day Adventists for worshiping on on Saturday um that is the farthest thing from my intention I am trying to stop the Carnage that’s that’s what I’m doing and if they say if their argument is look J Jesus uh Jesus has no opinion about this we want to argue for a strict separation of church and state okay but is that the same thing as a strict separation of morality and state what do they want do do they want the state to behave morally or not they sure don’t have an issue uh you know parts of the second table being enforced legally for example murder they don’t

Have any problem with that being legislated right but there are that and the second table of the law is not uh is not worldview independent so uh for the Christian abortion is murder for the secularist abortion is simply removing a clump of cells now you in order to have abortion be against the law you have to make a decision of about which worldview is going to govern that decision-making process and I’m simply saying we ought to have it be the true one and not a false one yeah and really that there’s no neutrality right that’s really what it comes down to is that everyone has a

Standpoint that they’re coming from and a lot of the thinking I guess in in a lot of the modern day Christian thinking or professing Christian thinking even is uh well we have to shelf our worldview and we have to assume the worldview of they’re not directly saying this but in essence they are an application they are we have to shove our worldview and assume the worldview of the pagans to play on their playing field and not let anything from our own worldview seep into all that and that’s just not really realistic right now let me quickly say something about the pH my kingdom is not

Of this world what the Lord is saying there is the base of the basis of his authority is not centered in this world seated in this world the monarch of this world is the Lord Jesus Christ and he’s at the right hand of the father it’s not from this world so the secular project that I’m opposing as a Christian nationalist is a the seor project wants to have the government of our nation be centered in this world and I’m arguing that we need a transcendental Authority a transcendental right and wrong overarching all of us we have to fight for a kingdom that’s not of this world

Yeah and I I think a lot of times too people don’t realize that that that statement by Christ is not a a statement about limiting domain right he he he already says in the Great Commission that all authority in heaven and on Earth is already his so EXA go therefore um he he’s he’s making a statement regarding um a a descriptor of his type of Kingdom or a descriptor in that regard not a statement regarding his sphere of domain let me boil it down to a very simple question suppose this uh gentleman is correct and that I have a secret plan to persecute and execute

Adventists for worshipping on Saturday suppose that were my plan and let’s suppose that I got into a position of political Authority where I started to do that and I was persecuting and jailing and Prosecuting and even executing seventh day adven if I were in the middle of doing that would I be making Jesus have happy or unhappy would he be dis would he be displeased with my behavior well I I would argue he’d be displeased with my behavior and then the question is if he’s displeased with my behavior should I alter my behavior on the basis of his

Displeasure and if the person says yes you should alter your behavior on the basis of the Lord’s displeasure of you killing Adventists I would say then welcome to Christian nationalism right well and I think Doug the the big underlying problem with a lot of this stuff is you have the whole gamut of two million words of Ellen White’s writings and she said things along the lines of the reason this is going to happen is because these people will be professing to be Christians they’ll be claiming to love the Lord but that’s evidenced by if you’re actually

Keeping the Ten Commandments which kind of Segways perfectly here into the next question because that’s the charge that’s going to be made is well you’re you don’t really love God because you’re not keeping his Commandments and that’s evidenced by the fact that you don’t observe the fourth Commandment because why does the Christian church universally worship on Sunday and not Saturday if the Ten Commandments specifically say the Sabbath is the seventh day okay so I’m gonna try and fit a bunch of stuff in in here right the fourth Commandment is given in

Exodus 20 and then in Deuteronomy 5 there are CH there are changes in the wording of the fourth Commandment in the 40 years between the beginning of the Wilderness period and the end of the Wilderness period uh so the the reason for the Sabbath commandment uh in Exodus 20 is one of them is the creation of the world in six days and the Lord rest on the seventh and the other is uh the deliverance from Egypt okay the ground the foundation or the grounding or the reason and they’re obviously not mutually exclusive then throughout the Old Testament as any good

Seventh Day Adventist will tell you throughout the Old Testament the Sabbath is praised and honored as a forever kind of thing as long basically as long as the sun sun and moon are in the sky you’re gonna have the Sabbath the Sabbath is wedded to the creation and so nothing will serve to alter the day but a new creation you can’t the as far as the old creation is concerned there is no way to have anything other than a seventh day Sabbath in the old creation but in the New Testament that’s precisely what we have we have a new creation Jesus says

In revelation behold I make all things new and so this is why in Hebrews 4 verses 9 and 10 it’s and I I’m a sabbatarian meaning I believe in the continuing validity and authority of the fourth Commandment but I believe there’s been a change of the day just as there was a change in the rationale between Exodus and Deuteronomy so the the fourth Commandment the rationale for it changed within the Old Testament and then because of the death burial and resurrection of Christ we have the establishment of a new creation a new heavens and a new Earth and consequently

And this is what Hebrews 49 and10 says therefore there remains a sabatus m a Sabbath rest for the people of God well why well well because Jesus Christ rested from his work the same way God rested from his work God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh the Lord Jesus completed his work three days and three nights in the Tomb and then entered into his rest just as God entered into his rest and that’s why we still have a Sabbath day so uh that’s in a nutshell my uh my case for first day of the week sabbot correct and and folks we’ve gotten into

This a bunch on the channel if you’ve been around for any length of time you know this we have articles on the website what Doug said there very succinctly we have said in hours and hours and hours and hours breaking this down Doug I think another interesting point that often uh gets overlooked in this discussion uh Dr Philip Kaiser actually brings this out in his book uh Sunday as the first day Sabbath he he rightly points out that in the beginning prior to the fall because Adventists love to point to prior to the fall and say well it was established the seventh

Day prior prior to the fall um but they don’t understand it wasn’t man’s seventh day man was prepared and fashioned on day six preparation day to then begin based on evening to evening his first day would have technically been the seventh day because on Preparation day he was prepared to then enter into Holy Communion with God before then going and subduing the Earth taking Dominion Etc so prior to the fall Man actually started his week in that right relationship with God Jesus restores in that new creation what man lost so you did a really good job there succinctly

Saying ex exactly what it is that’s exactly why is that in the new creation which we don’t need I think another big problem for them sometimes is they tend to think in sort of like a very verbatim hermeneutic that like well because it’s not verbatim stated you know the Sabbath was changed to Sunday therefore it can’t be biblical which they don’t consistently bring that out uh that standard out because if you internally examine their system uh using that same standard you’re going to find well why are you only using the standard when it comes to the Sabbath you don’t use this

For you know 95% of the other things that you say so that actually leads to my final question here which is and you kind of touched on this but what is the Sabbath ultimately about this this is I think is a glorious question with a hopefully glorious answer and that is one of the symbolic uh changes between the old and the New Covenant is in the old Covenant we worked for six and rested for one and in the New Covenant we rest for one and we work for six so um I I like to think of this and this is how I frequently pray As We Worship the Lord on the first day of the week as We

Gather on the first day of the week as the Corinthians were told to set aside their tithes and offerings on the first day of the week uh which I regard as the Lord’s day we’re pouring a foundation slab on on the first day of the week which is our day of worship and then we are privileged in our subsequent work to to build what we build in the course of the following week on the foundation of having worshiped God and this is sort of a privileged um for of Grace the old Covenant was a gracious Covenant as well God is always gracious but the New Covenant is far more gracious than the

Old the grace the grace is foregrounded the grace is far more preeminent so uh what we’re doing is Jesus Christ has died been buried rose again from the dead he entered into his rest that’s the foundation of everything we do the grace of God in the gospel and so then on Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday I can live out my life before God trusting him building in line with the worship that I offered up on the Lord’s day yeah and there’s actually an interesting parallel there which I think there’s a lot but one of them that I think sometimes gets overlooked is it’s

It’s almost the equivalent of the first fruits we’re giving God the first fruits of our of our week of our labors um just like Christ was the first fruits of the new creation um and all the stuff that Leviticus 23 gets into um or typologically foreshadowing um Doug thank you so much for your time I know you’re busy but God bless you and your family in closing I do actually have one more question what would you say to someone that’s maybe coming out of a sabbatarian cult like this and is fearful of worshiping corporately on Sunday because that I find to be one of

The biggest Hang-Ups for people that are leaving this movement um I know it was when I was leaving adventism there was sort of an icky or a dark cloud over uh going to church on Sunday and this sort of fear that in doing so God is is displeased with me what would you say to somebody like that I would say um basically this is a the whole thing Lord’s Day Worship On the first day of the week is in fact a get to not a got to it’s a get to invitation not a u not a hammer over your head so what I would say to uh someone in that position is to do what a friend of mine

Did who who came out of adventism uh he started he and his family started coming to worship uh with us on Sunday but what they did is they and I think this is largely for cultural for cultural reasons they have a devotional time with the the family devotional time on Saturday which is certainly permissible and lawful and nobody’s going to be upset with him or execute him for it um and they can enter into the worship together with God’s people who have been liberated by grace who are not under the law and not under all the strange legalisms that exist in adventism and if

Someone’s coming out of AD adventism the chances are pretty good that they are very much aware of the legalistic atmosphere that can exist there and they they just need to worship God in a free uh in the in the Liberty that is in Christ but if you want to have a Bible reading with your family on Saturday do it amen well like I said Doug thank you so much I know you’re busy and uh I’ve gleaned a lot from you over the years and so I’m appreciative of that appreciative of that um if you ever come to Tennessee and visit Dr Grant uh maybe we will uh maybe we’ll cross

Paths sometime that’d be wonderful all right Absol thank you yeah thank you so there we go nope Doug Wilson and Christian nationalists are not seeking to persecute seventh day Adventists nor is he a part of some secret coven of apostate Protestants that want to strip Adventist of their freedom of conscience and Liberty oh except to the extent that Adventist wouldn’t be able to buy a shovel on a Sunday nevertheless if you enjoyed today’s content smash that like button subscribe and don’t forget you can visit answering adventti m.com to partner with

Us access more resources and even sign up for our monthly newsletter as always until next time God

Bless